Grand Carnivale 2023 Discussion and Food Reviews

[brenthodge]

The whole event feels way “less” than even 21, which already eliminated the individual country stages and crafts that gave it its true “culture festival “ feel. Now if you aren’t eating or drinking or watching one parade, theres pretty much nothing to do. That said. after talking to Koontz just now (for about 15 min) he pretty much agreed and said it’s a conversation he’s even had as recently as yesterday with corporate live entertainment. He mentioned that a lot of times when they try something new, they might “throw everything at the wall” and go too big just to test a lot. Then, when they have to scale down to an executable scale, the passionate fan base here definitely notice it and call it out. He said it’s almost a good problem that our base cares and notices so much. I really felt like it pains him to see how gutted the event is. He puts a game face on, but you can tell he knows and knows YOU know it’s just not as good. Very interesting conversation. Caught him after the opening (after it has started for an hour) ceremony. He just kept talking (lots of interesting, border line “too much” info) -like I eventually said, “well I know you’ve got a park to run…”to wrap it up.  I think he liked having a great complement (I told him how my 9 year old recreated the new Adventure Express with his train sets) and sharing with someone who understands it’s a publicity traded company, with budgets, that he doesn’t have complete control of, but they are trying to give the best experience within those constraints. It’s a numbers game, and like those games you slide the tiles around… there’s only so many tile, you just have to kept sliding them till you get something that resembles a solution. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

One thing I miss from the 2019 Carnivale event along with the individual stages is when they brought in live bands each weekend to share the bandstand stage with Royal Rhythms. Now I think it was probably a little too chaotic and crowded doing that, but here's my solution. I've always said Carnivale would be a perfect time to use Timberwolf. Now I understand that the concert series last year likely wasn't as successful as they thought, but the thing is they had people pay for tickets to see bands (outside of Skillet and 3DD) that was basically not as big as before. The solution I have is do something similar to what Busch Gardens Williamsburg does with their Summer Nights Concert Series where it is based around their Summer Celebration event and the concerts are free with park admission and you just go and get a concert admission wristband in the park on the day of the concert and the wristbands are first come first serve. 

https://buschgardens.com/williamsburg/events/summer-nights/concerts/

[brenthodge]

24 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

One thing I miss from the 2019 Carnivale event along with the individual stages is when they brought in live bands each weekend to share the bandstand stage with Royal Rhythms. Now I think it was probably a little too chaotic and crowded doing that, but here's my solution. I've always said Carnivale would be a perfect time to use Timberwolf. Now I understand that the concert series last year likely wasn't as successful as they thought, but the thing is they had people pay for tickets to see bands (outside of Skillet and 3DD) that was basically not as big as before. The solution I have is do something similar to what Busch Gardens Williamsburg does with their Summer Nights Concert Series where it is based around their Summer Celebration event and the concerts are free with park admission and you just go and get a concert admission wristband in the park on the day of the concert and the wristbands are first come first serve. 

https://buschgardens.com/williamsburg/events/summer-nights/concerts/

Forgot about the bands as well. I remember 2019 was almost like Winterfest with WAY too much to do in one night. We didn’t have passes that year and actually bought tickets just for the evening to come in-didn’t ride a single thing-went show to show… area to area… and was actually sad we didn’t have passes that year (I came pretty close to buying another ticket later in the run, but it got miserably hot) if you give people a reason…. They will spend. I was wondering tonight just how much in entertainment payroll they save moving the parade up to get most E staff off the clock by 8, when as I left right after the parade, there was a mass exodus of spending people all leaving with me. I feel like there is a lot of “immediate savings” thinking going on right now without enough thought given to lost ROI and potential damage to the brand. Honestly at this point, I’d suggest going to every other year if they can’t make it have more ooompf than this year. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

The whole event feels way “less” than even 21, which already eliminated the individual country stages and crafts that gave it its true “culture festival “ feel. Now if you aren’t eating or drinking or watching one parade, theres pretty much nothing to do. That said. after talking to Koontz just now (for about 15 min) he pretty much agreed and said it’s a conversation he’s even had as recently as yesterday with corporate live entertainment. He mentioned that a lot of times when they try something new, they might “throw everything at the wall” and go too big just to test a lot. Then, when they have to scale down to an executable scale, the passionate fan base here definitely notice it and call it out. He said it’s almost a good problem that our base cares and notices so much. I really felt like it pains him to see how gutted the event is. He puts a game face on, but you can tell he knows and knows YOU know it’s just not as good. Very interesting conversation. Caught him after the opening (after it has started for an hour) ceremony. He just kept talking (lots of interesting, border line “too much” info) -like I eventually said, “well I know you’ve got a park to run…”to wrap it up.  I think he liked having a great complement (I told him how my 9 year old recreated the new Adventure Express with his train sets) and sharing with someone who understands it’s a publicity traded company, with budgets, that he doesn’t have complete control of, but they are trying to give the best experience within those constraints. It’s a numbers game, and like those games you slide the tiles around… there’s only so many tile, you just have to kept sliding them till you get something that resembles a solution. 

This is why it sometimes pains me to criticize Kings Island for being cheap with all these budget cuts. While the park has been cutting a lot recently, I am fully aware that the budget cuts are almost entirely out of the park’s control. It is obvious that the Kings Island team is really passionate about the park and wants to operate it to its full potential. Unfortunately, Kings Island is limited by the corporate bean counters.

[CoasterJack]

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

The whole event feels way “less” than even 21, which already eliminated the individual country stages and crafts that gave it its true “culture festival “ feel. Now if you aren’t eating or drinking or watching one parade, theres pretty much nothing to do. That said. after talking to Koontz just now (for about 15 min) he pretty much agreed and said it’s a conversation he’s even had as recently as yesterday with corporate live entertainment. He mentioned that a lot of times when they try something new, they might “throw everything at the wall” and go too big just to test a lot. Then, when they have to scale down to an executable scale, the passionate fan base here definitely notice it and call it out. He said it’s almost a good problem that our base cares and notices so much. I really felt like it pains him to see how gutted the event is. He puts a game face on, but you can tell he knows and knows YOU know it’s just not as good. Very interesting conversation. Caught him after the opening (after it has started for an hour) ceremony. He just kept talking (lots of interesting, border line “too much” info) -like I eventually said, “well I know you’ve got a park to run…”to wrap it up.  I think he liked having a great complement (I told him how my 9 year old recreated the new Adventure Express with his train sets) and sharing with someone who understands it’s a publicity traded company, with budgets, that he doesn’t have complete control of, but they are trying to give the best experience within those constraints. It’s a numbers game, and like those games you slide the tiles around… there’s only so many tile, you just have to kept sliding them till you get something that resembles a solution. 

 

I've gathered the same thing from a few short conversations with Koontz. That man truly gives his all for the park, and you can tell he really cares about every aspect. He always has amazing expectations and great ideas, but I feel as if he's sometimes a little disappointed in what is ultimately allocated for them to work with. I feel he's one of the core reasons I feel the atmosphere and apperance of the park so greatly improved over the past few years. KI is very fortunate to have someone so passionate about the park. But this also worries me that with the frustrations of the corporate board mounting, he decides to call it quits, which would be a huge loss for us and for the park

[brenthodge]

23 hours ago, CoasterJack said:

I've gathered the same thing from a few short conversations with Koontz. That man truly gives his all for the park, and you can tell he really cares about every aspect. He always has amazing expectations and great ideas, but I feel as if he's sometimes a little disappointed in what is ultimately allocated for them to work with. I feel he's one of the core reasons I feel the atmosphere and apperance of the park so greatly improved over the past few years. KI is very fortunate to have someone so passionate about the park. But this also worries me that with the frustrations of the corporate board mounting, he decides to call it quits, which would be a huge loss for us and for the park

As to his expectations and ideas… he confirmed that last years lineup for Timberwolf was not what had been envisioned. He said they were “that close” to signing a few acts that would’ve  really surprised people and set a new bar. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

13 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

As to his expectations and ideas… he confirmed that last years lineup for Timberwolf was not what had been envisioned. He said they were “that close” to signing a few acts that -he wouldn’t name names as “it doesn’t even matter now” - would’ve really surprised people and set a new bar. He said it was not the plan to be “playing to 300 people in a 900 seat venue” as actually happened a couple of shows. LOL. I’m telling you, he just kept rambling. I was hoping to catch a phantom theatre nugget, but no dice. 

Wonder what caused the contracts to fall through? Was it something to do with a contract with an outside promoter (like live nation), a budget thing, or the fact that Timberwolf is just not a nice venue compared to the other venues around the area (ie Riverbend, the Newport Amphitheater, Andrew J Brady, etc)

[BoddaH1994]

12 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

As to his expectations and ideas… he confirmed that last years lineup for Timberwolf was not what had been envisioned. He said they were “that close” to signing a few acts that -he wouldn’t name names as “it doesn’t even matter now” - would’ve really surprised people and set a new bar. He said it was not the plan to be “playing to 300 people in a 900 seat venue” as actually happened a couple of shows. LOL. I’m telling you, he just kept rambling. I was hoping to catch a phantom theatre nugget, but no dice. 

More like 300 people in a 10,000 seat venue. I felt bad for some of the artists. With that being said, I did greatly enjoy the concert series last year. 
 

To be clear (and to reiterate what you’ve been saying), us poking fun or pointing out the budget cuts is not a referendum on Mr Koontz or anyone else. They are given a budget, they use the budget. The total purse is not under their control and, knowing that money was scarce, they did a good job. 
 

Koontz isn’t an idiot. He doesn’t say, “you know what we could do this year? Grand Carnivale but less. We’ll have rides, but for less hours.” They do what they can with the money they get. 

[Timchat2]

It's encouraging to hear that Mr. Koontz acknowledges how the current Grand Carnivale experience compares to previous years. Like others have said, he does seem to deeply care and truly get what makes Kings Island special. We can only hope he stays long enough to weather the current budgeting environment.

 

[Timchat2]

On Twitter (or "X" for now) Carowinds mentioned that guests "enjoyed 15,444 international tastes during Grand Carnivale this year at #Carowinds", which possibly gives a little insight into how much Grand Carnivale might bring for the parks if the average price of each item is around eight dollars.

[brenthodge]

10 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

On Twitter (or "X" for now) Carowinds mentioned that guests "enjoyed 15,444 international tastes during Grand Carnivale this year at #Carowinds", which possibly gives a little insight into how much Grand Carnivale might bring for the parks if the average price of each item is around eight dollars.

Hence why the focus on FOOD AND BEVERAGE was definitely not an aspect that got cut (except loosing India, and that may have been the lowest volume country for food sales - even though it’s featured in the show and parade -as is MardiGras and neither have food options. 

[MDMC01]

I enjoyed Carnivale last night. While I did miss the different pavilions/acts from past years (Chinese acrobats, Bollywood dancing; even last year’s Cirque routine), I still had a lot of fun. The QR code challenge seems to be upgraded from last year (as there is an added workbook with questions to answer about each country - IIRC, in the past it was just “watch a video/take a selfie”) and I think I enjoyed following the parade after it passed by more than seeing the parade itself (which was still fun; it was great seeing familiar faces both in the parade and along the route ). And speaking of the parade, I noticed a lyric change in the main song. In the past it was “Come on in and join us, we’re havin’ a ball”; now it’s “everyone is welcome, come one and come all” (or something like that).

[BoddaH1994]

30 minutes ago, MDMC01 said:

I enjoyed Carnivale last night. While I did miss the different pavilions/acts from past years (Chinese acrobats, Bollywood dancing; even last year’s Cirque routine), I still had a lot of fun. The QR code challenge seems to be upgraded from last year (as there is an added workbook with questions to answer about each country - IIRC, in the past it was just “watch a video/take a selfie”) and I think I enjoyed following the parade after it passed by more than seeing the parade itself (which was still fun; it was great seeing familiar faces both in the parade and along the route ). And speaking of the parade, I noticed a lyric change in the main song. In the past it was “Come on in and join us, we’re havin’ a ball”; now it’s “everyone is welcome, come one and come all” (or something like that).

Lyrics haven’t changed. Those are two different verses.

[MDMC01]

Oh. I guess I kept hearing just that verse then (although I may have heard the first verse during the parade). That being said, I do remember the other one more as I kept singing the wrong words lol

[brenthodge]

Lot of chatter in social world about “why the parade just ends and everyone leaves” been that one from year 1 not sure why it’s now annoying everyone as much as it has me all along LOL

[Skyrider]

Unless they can’t get enough staffing it seems like it would be worth having the Carnivale food booths open earlier than 5pm on the weekends.  Did they use to be open earlier on the weekends in years past?  Seems like more people might op to purchase the food tasting cards and make a better profit for the company.

[BeeastFarmer]

2 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Lot of chatter in social world about “why the parade just ends and everyone leaves” been that one from year 1 not sure why it’s now annoying everyone as much as it has me all along LOL

For myself, the only time I was on that side was during Winterfest, in front of The Spanish Building.  The parade did continue there through the end.  Maybe they had the show stops off that night. 

[brenthodge]

7 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

For myself, the only time I was on that side was during Winterfest, in front of The Spanish Building.  The parade did continue there through the end.  Maybe they had the show stops off that night. 

For threat of bad weather they will just switch to parade mode and continue all the way around. Almost wish they would cut 2 show stops- one by VIP And go to one in front onnI street - that and coney are the best places to see the whole “show” anyway and if clearly promoted that way, I think it would be enough to satisfy the “show people” unless people are really into the show stop, it can come off as awkward anyway. 

[Timchat2]

Now that Grand Carnivale has concluded for 2023, will the event return for 2024?

If it does return I'd imagine it will be very similar to this season and less like what we had in 2019 and 2021. How Kings Island specifically executes Grand Carnivale (the early parade start time, nearly all of the GC characters disappearing after the parade, etc.) will likely be tied to what the park decides to do for the regular season live entertainment.

[Orion-XL200]

I don't feel like I missed anything by not being there for it this year. From what I gathered, it was less exciting and a "must do" event than it has been previously. 

Truthfully, if the decision is being made about next year (at this point) I hope they don't bring it back...save $ since it's apparent budgets are at the forefront. Don't half a** it if you can't do it fully...save $, time and effort and turn those things into something you can do full a**.

[Born_in_'72]

From my favorite TV character of all time..... Ron Swanson.

[brenthodge]

19 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

Now that Grand Carnivale has concluded for 2023, will the event return for 2024?

If it does return I'd imagine it will be very similar to this season and less like what we had in 2019 and 2021. How Kings Island specifically executes Grand Carnivale (the early parade start time, nearly all of the GC characters disappearing after the parade, etc.) will likely be tied to what the park decides to do for the regular season live entertainment.

The problem is for everyone that complains about how minimal it was, there are 1-2 more gushingcc bc about how amazing it was “anyWay” and when they see those, that’s A clear indication to leadership that they can do more with less. *****ing on Facebook groups about how bad things were but never actually serving the feedback to the park leads to the very things people pointlessly complaining about. 

[disco2000]

Yeah but people get their 15 minutes of fame and likes on social media that they don't get if they inform the park directly lol.

And look how many think that FB site is affiliated with KI lol

[Timchat2]

A performer at Worlds of Fun posted a vlog where she mentions that this was the last season of Grand Carnivale at that park, so it seems possible the 2023 run was the last for the event chain-wide.

[Imperial79]

Per the new press release today, Grand Carnivale is coming back to a number of parks, and Frontier Festival is coming back to Cedar Point, so that is good news! 

https://www.cedarfair.com/news?page=1

[Timchat2]

That's encouraging to hear. We will see what form the event takes next season.

Worlds of Fun seems to come up short on the seasonal events, especially if they lose Grand Carnivale after losing WinterFest.

 

[Orion-XL200]

Watched them load up the Grand Carnival floats behind Orion this afternoon....also saw two Winterfest parade floats come out of the trailer.