Coney Island Permanently Closing

[beastfan11]

1 hour ago, burlguy41005 said:

Dig into MEMI and watch the money trail.

That’s a funny way to spell Live Nation. 

[SonofBaconator]

So can KI rename Coney Mall Coney Island?

[Hoeter]

Having grown up on the east side of Cincinnati, I have been to Coney Island several times during my childhood and visited their Christmas light display a couple of years back. I vividly remember seeing Kellogg Avenue and Coney Island underwater when the flood hit in March of 1997. This announcement, in terms of shock and awe, reminds me of when the Cincinnati Gardens closed several years back.

A lot of the feedback that I have seen on social media regarding the closure/announcement of the new music venue has been relatively negative, however with the removal of the rides a couple of years back, I was curious how viable business would be with the pool and related water attractions. 

I did a little reflecting as well on the impact that Coney Island had on the industry and the impact that it had. Had it not been for Coney Island and other events, such as the 1964 flood and the purchase by Taft, there's a chance Kings Island never would have been built, meaning that The Racer would have never sparked the second golden age of the roller coaster - I wonder what the impact would have been on the industry? Coney Island, I feel, wasn't only beloved by generations of Cincinnatians, but had a lasting impact on the industry as a whole.

[Buckeye Brad]

All great points Hoeter.

Speaking of Coney’s  influence, there a neat article about Walt Disney touring parks for research and inspiration when planning Disneyland. Apparently Coney Island was an important contribution to Disneyland, and by extension, the entire amusement park industry. 

Cincinnati.com article

[beastfan11]

54 minutes ago, Buckeye Brad said:

All great points Hoeter.

Speaking of Coney’s  influence, there a neat article about Walt Disney touring parks for research and inspiration when planning Disneyland. Apparently Coney Island was an important contribution to Disneyland, and by extension, the entire amusement park industry. 

Cincinnati.com article

Best .79 cents one could spend, I guess. 
 

 

Coney Island, Cincinnati….

What a loss.

[disco2000]

And now there is a petition to save Coney....  

And they put down elected officials as the decision makers LOL.

Nope it is one private property owner selling it to another private property owner (owner being a company in this case instead of the government).  

https://www.change.org/p/stop-cement-fill-in-turn-coney-island-s-pool-into-a-historical-landmark

 

[Orion-XL200]

Oh Change.org petitions! 

I'm sad but not too sad as I had only visited twice.

[Aaron88stang]

Has a change.org petition ever actually made any kind of meaningful impact? Most are laughable. 

[beastfan11]

1 hour ago, Aaron88stang said:

Has a change.org petition ever actually made any kind of meaningful impact? Most are laughable. 

I had signed one that actually worked. 
 

I think the hope of this one is that the historical nature of the grounds, infrastructure, and buildings should be reason enough for them to be saved. That’s where the government would theoretically step in. Don’t really know how, or if that would even work. 

[disco2000]

54 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

I had signed one that actually worked. 
 

I think the hope of this one is that the historical nature of the grounds, infrastructure, and buildings should be reason enough for them to be saved. That’s where the government would theoretically step in. Don’t really know how, or if that would even work. 

What were the circumstances of the one that you signed that worked?  While there are always some things that this could be beneficial, as someone else pointed out, these are rarely successful.

If the government were to step in, then they would need to fund it because it isn't fair to a property owner to be forced to lose money just to keep land as is for historical purposes.  Given its location, it doesn't meet the other criteria that would encourage them to get involved.

Further, the property is part in the City of Cincinnati and part in Anderson Township.  If you extend Sutton Ave to the Ohio River, everything on the lake side is the City side.  So Moonlite Gardens is on City side while Sunlight pool is on the Anderson Township side.

That would further muddy up the situation.

Unless another organization can come up with the asking price or the public backlash is soo strong that the purchaser decides to back out, this will continue.  

It goes along with my theory of why they slowly let this property get to this situation - if they did it when Coney was in full capacity, the backlash may have scared the potential buyer away.  The hope is that since it was basically just a pool at this point that any backlash would be small background noise that wouldn't scare off the buyer.

 

 

[beastfan11]

2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

What were the circumstances of the one that you signed that worked?  While there are always some things that this could be beneficial, as someone else pointed out, these are rarely successful.

This was back in 2020 during the begging of Covid, but it involved allowing immigrant students to stay in the country due to the state of the world. It also involved access to online education. But yeah, these typically don’t do anything. 
 

2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Unless another organization can come up with the asking price or the public backlash is soo strong that the purchaser decides to back out, this will continue.  

As sad as it is to admit, I even think that’s a stretch. Seems like a done deal to me. But in regards to the public backlash, I haven’t encountered anyone online who’s been happy about the decision. As far as public outcry, well, having just been down at Coney in the last hour I can say that it’s beginning: 

(pictures taken legally) 

Whether people voicing their displeasure will do anything is unlikely. But it’s starting to happen. I ran into another enthusiast with a pretty sick Beast license plate and we talked for a bit. It’s a shame. Rick if you’re on here, it was great talking with you!

Satalite WLWT truck pulled up as I was leaving. Might get more info on the news tonight. 

[beastfan11]

2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

It goes along with my theory of why they slowly let this property get to this situation - if they did it when Coney was in full capacity, the backlash may have scared the potential buyer away.  The hope is that since it was basically just a pool at this point that any backlash would be small background noise that wouldn't scare off the buyer.

This is well thought out and does make a lot of since, but I think you’re giving them too much credit. 

In my opinion  it boiled down to current/recently former generational ownership being completely inadequate at running the park. There’s a laundry list of greed driven, poor decision making since said individual took over. The park took on a severe amount of debt as a result and didn’t stand a chance. 

[silver2005]

I'm kinda jealous of Pennsylvania where the smaller parks are allowed to co-exist with the bigger parks.  I wish there were 1 or 2 good smaller park options in Ohio/NKY, at least something closer than Louisville.   

[Outdoor Man]

Call me crazy but maybe this could lead to a 2025 refurbishment of the Coney Mall section to reflect the legacy of Coney Island. I'm thinking to rescue Coney items that could be lost to the wrecking ball and could dramatically dress up the area. For instance the "Coney Island" gate entrances (the ones cars passed through as well as the one by the river with the lighthouse) relocate  them to near the Coke building and juke box diner.  Disassemble Moonlite Gardens and place in part of the former Vortex footprint as a new restaurant as an end cap of the section. Steal the flyers back and maybe even replant Ginkgo Trees... Also, take anything of historical significance the can be relocated and refurb/remake the area. This is an opportunity that will be lost forever in less than 6 months.

All very much long shots. But if public interest demands... CF/Six could even get federal funds to rehab/restore historical landmarks.

 

[beastfan11]

Anderson didn’t know of the plans until we did. Horrible what this does to the city. 
 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2023/12/15/anderson-township-officials-not-in-the-loop-of-coney-island-sale/71936537007/
 

“Given said investment, the Board of Township Trustees expects to have meaningful discussion with (Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra) leadership soon to learn about the detailed plans for the former Coney Island site and how such plans will impact the Anderson community," the statement reads. "Once those conversations have occurred and more information is shared, township officials will be able to comment further."

[Taylor.B03]

1 hour ago, beastfan11 said:

Anderson didn’t know of the plans until we did. Horrible what this does to the city. 
 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2023/12/15/anderson-township-officials-not-in-the-loop-of-coney-island-sale/71936537007/
 

“Given said investment, the Board of Township Trustees expects to have meaningful discussion with (Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra) leadership soon to learn about the detailed plans for the former Coney Island site and how such plans will impact the Anderson community," the statement reads. "Once those conversations have occurred and more information is shared, township officials will be able to comment further."

Wow, talk about sneaky! I don't even know how on earth such a massive and historical project / transaction could be so secretive. To me, that's a tad bit shady.

[pilotank]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:28 PM, Buckeye Brad said:

All great points Hoeter.

Speaking of Coney’s  influence, there a neat article about Walt Disney touring parks for research and inspiration when planning Disneyland. Apparently Coney Island was an important contribution to Disneyland, and by extension, the entire amusement park industry. 

Cincinnati.com article

Coney Islands train that is still running in Lake Winnie Amusement Park in Chattanooga, was the model that Walt Disney used for his train in Disneyland. Disney returned the favor by having his design company make the blueprints for The Racer at KI.

Pilotank

[pilotank]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:39 PM, CoastersRZ said:

I don`t know how to feel.  I still miss the rides and was hopeful that one day the rides would make a come back.  I feared that this day would come where it would cease to exist.  It is really sad.

Although I never worked directly for Coney, our family business sold kettlekorn for over 20 years at Coney for special events such as Summer Fair and Balloon Glow. We also sold everyday at our little outbuilding by The Python, until the rides were removed for the second time. We saw close to 30,000 patrons depending on what day Balloon Glow landed. Our family also were season pass holders from the year they started them Both sets of my grandparents met at Moonlight Gardens. I always hoped as CoastersRZ had, that the rides would come back. My daughter was a lifeguard and was credited for saving a high diver's life when his dive went wrong during a show by touring firefighters. If you look at the 275 beltway between the southern part of Ohio, eastern part of Indiana and northern Ky, this region has a population of 2.4 million. Actually more than what KI has. I wish they would have completed a feasibility study, I truly believe Coney could have made a great comeback to it's glory days. Now we will never know. Thank-you CoastersRZ for your posts and insight through the years. We didn't agree on everything, but I always respected your opinion.

Pilotank

[CoastersRZ]

Thanks for the kind words, Pilotank.  I remember all of our rides employees coming into the rides office with Kettle Corn.  Good memories.  I made it a solid twenty seasons at Coney.  

The ironic thing is that I applied there back in 2002 for my first job because it was closer to my house than Kings Island.  My thinking at the time was that I would work one year at Coney, then work at Kings Island in rides the following season.  One season turned to two, my brother and cousin worked there the second season (my cousin actually had a full time job there in maintenance and was one of the many people I know that still worked there that are now losing there jobs because of this).  And before I knew it I had accumulated lots of seasons there.  I agree, that given the right investment, the park could have been successful and remained a success.  The kiddie ride, family amusement park segment is a good niche.  Introduce the kids to rides, have a pool.  Similar feel to what Stricker`s Grove is, but open to the public and with a swimming pool. Too bad the ownership wasn`t more involved to make it work.  Especially with all the concert goers that walked through the park every year.  Seemed like a lot of missed opportunities.  I truly miss that, and the small town feel that Coney had.  You would recognize the frequent pass holders, and even sometimes people from the same company picnics year in and year out.  Such a bad ending to a Cincinnati institution.  She deserved a better ending then what she is getting.  Hopefully they can include some kind of tribute in the design of the new arena for Riverbend.

I still wish I could go back to running the rides there.

Fun Spot Orlando can make things work with just a bunch of smaller flat rides, go kart tracks and a small sized wooden coaster.  I got to tour that location when I went down to Orlando last month for IAAPA for my work.  I think a small park like that can still work in the Cincinnati area.  It just needs someone with some capital to invest, and someone to know what they are doing to make it work.  Will we ever see something like that?  I doubt it, but I can dream, right.  

[disco2000]

2 hours ago, Taylor.B03 said:

Wow, talk about sneaky! I don't even know how on earth such a massive and historical project / transaction could be so secretive. To me, that's a tad bit shady.

Why?  It is one private entity selling property to another private entity and the township approval is not needed as the zoning will not have to change.

This is simply Anderson Township posturing to not look like a bad guy regarding a historical park disappearing.

Further, Kellogg is a state road, so other than the new owner wanting to be a "good neighbor" to the community, the township really doesn't have any say in the matter.

All building permits will be through the County.

Anderson Township can simply sit back and get their share of the increased tax base coming from this, all the while playing the victim card and not wanting to see history removed if that is the route they decide to take.  Or they may decide to embrace it and welcome the new addition and additional revenue that comes from it.

[Oldiesmann]

I kind of get the feeling that current management didn't really know what to do with the park. The pool was indeed the bigger attraction, but there were still plenty of shows at Moonlite Pavilion (albeit ones aimed at an older audience) and the rides were still somewhat popular, especially during special events such as Balloon Glow and the fireworks festival. They did mention that they wanted to expand the pool/water stuff some, but never did much with it in that regard, instead adding things that would mainly appeal to younger kids (foam party, etc.) and not really doing enough to attract people who might not otherwise visit the park. I can't really say I'm surprised at this announcement though - the owners get a nice windfall and can retire comfortably while MEMI/LiveNation/Ticketmaster get yet another source of revenue. They already attract a large number of high profile concerts out there during the summer, so it shouldn't be hard for them to book acts during the rest of the year either.

[beastfan11]

More info on MEMI, Live Nation, and Ticketmaster. 
 

MEMI: 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/cincinnati-admission-tax-music-festivals-revolt-with-federal-lawsuit?fbclid=IwAR1XtL9vMvGKP244t4OYcI7qkzbaDGackULZ1NwKZ6R_RwTycexo7QQOWpg_aem_Af71FdOKcxeMBFPboUVdzgjY49Ha8SoMFJMo7ERFJa1EDjlRO4W6XT7Q_7fD6JUqvqk

Live Nation: 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/live-nation-consumer-ticket-price-lawsuit-loses-bid-mass-arbitration-2023-08-11/?fbclid=IwAR0ual-7x-7-3Csxz-c_2TxdoxkRJSxLBhvZFAj5BPv5TASfR9VXQNMA8h4_aem_Af4u75iCjmgamLslsF1nKndLKdjai0U4HOREapriNk1Mda0zHtjcNqQtWhGizid9E6E

Ticketmaster: 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/man-sues-ticketmaster-engaging-monopolistic-anticompetitive-practices/?fbclid=IwAR35Iziy6rBQLGNQkkfkzC75eb_6SRNyWMlrd9wC4yF9s7fo-nV6ZlPWtag_aem_Af55j9tdPCvGOQF--Ru8ywSZs0V0txlAot2lAUW2l31jR6Lwx1cc8uiAzFmW1jJ_PbM
 

I know the term “monopoly” has been tossed around incorrectly in light of the likely Cedar Fair/Six Flags merger… but this is broadway, baby. THIS is the corporate monopoly to be fearful of. All the way from Washington to our backyards.
 

If anyone wants to waste time justifying the immoral practices of private entities, then that’s on you. Bootlicking is a hobby that’s becoming increasingly unpopular. Contrarian attitudes for the sake of being different are translucent and embarrassing. 
 

Nothing about this is good for anyone, sans a few well-off beneficiaries of the sale. 

[Kenban]

I was told something by someone familiar with Coneys finances.  They said “Coney is worth more as a parking lot than as an amusement park”.  That was from a few years before the rides were removed.

Riverbend uses the Coney parking and builds some amount into the ticket cost which is paid to Coney.  My understanding is without this revenue the park would have closed years ago.

Economics of scale are real, operating a small amusement park, profitably, is extremely hard.  Being next to the river and flooding every few years, did not help.  I enjoyed visiting Coney, but even when the rides were still there, I rarely visited the park.  Since the rides were removed I have not been back.

I am not surprised the park closed.  People can sit behind a keyboard and claim this is due to the removal of the rides, but frankly even if they were still there I believe this is the direction the park was headed.

[disco2000]

^Yep, I have been saying that for years here.

Same reason why they eliminated 9 holes from the golf course across the street from KI - they make more as a parking lot for a two week tennis tournament than it made as a golf course all year.

[beastfan11]

The petition grows and CSO remains silent: 
 

https://local12.com/news/local/thousands-sign-petition-demanding-coney-islands-sunlite-pool-preserved-historic-history-landmark-swimming-community-anderson-township-cincinnati-symphony-orchesta-music-venue-petitions-iconic-recirculating-gallons-water-kids-fun-entertainment-park-label#
 

(your boy beastfan11 makes a blink and miss it cameo) 

[Gordon Bombay]

59 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

The petition grows and CSO remains silent: 

You know who won't be silent?

Def Leppard and their tens of fans still rocking out to "Pour Some Sugar on Me" at the new venue. 

[beastfan11]

5 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

You know who won't be silent?

Def Leppard and their tens of fans still rocking out to "Pour Some Sugar on Me" at the new venue. 

True, but tens of Def Leppard fans adds up to about 350 (dip spit filled) crushed cans of ‘Nati Light, so I doubt the traffic out of there will be any better. 

[Outdoor Man]

Kings Island: buy historical landmarks that will be lost forever in a few months... refurb Coney Mall with said landmarks.

[OverlandTaxis30]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:30 PM, pilotank said:

Coney Islands train that is still running in Lake Winnie Amusement Park in Chattanooga, was the model that Walt Disney used for his train in Disneyland.

While Coney Island’s train was the same model as Lake Winnie’s, it is NOT one and the same. One of Coney’s old trains is in storage in Kentucky near the old Guntown Mountain.
 

 Also, Walt’s train was based on the design of the Central Pacific 173, a 4-4-0, not the C.p. Huntington, a 4-2-4. 

[Gordon Bombay]

20 hours ago, beastfan11 said:

True, but tens of Def Leppard fans adds up to about 350 (dip spit filled) crushed cans of ‘Nati Light, so I doubt the traffic out of there will be any better. 

take a bottle,
shake it up
Break the bubble,
break it up

POUR THAT DIP SPIT ON ME