Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[BeeastFarmer]

Rivertown needs to reflect it's original purpose...a wooded pioneer era with the industrial era that started in Losantisville.  Not a Wild West town filled with dust and saloons that you would see in gold rush era in Californie, Arizona or Nevada. Big difference. 

[brenthodge]

2 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Rivertown needs to reflect it's original purpose...a wooden pioneer era with the industrial era that started in Losantisville.  Not a Wild West town filled with dust and saloons that you would see in gold rush era in Californie, Arizona or Nevada. Big difference. 

THANK YOU!! the "Pony Express" - Wild West concepts don't reflect what the area is supposed to be. It isn't "Frontier Town" I feel like even the park got it wrong with Diamondback and they took the easy "Wild West" name route bu then didn't even support that with true theming.Somewhere at the beginning of this tread is the narrative I wrote that ties the past to the present with the whole "industrial" backstory to ground it. 

[BB1]

I just want a green intamin that just so happens to be an aqua trax named YoungStud to be installed somewhere back there. (I kid I kid)

Honestly LOVE the idea of bringing a "Losantiville" experience to RiverTown; however I would much rather see that area stay with Coney Mall.  There is a lot the park could do, but something I think that would really take off would be something themed after aviation or Lunken Airport. Being a HUGE part of Cincinnati's growth in the 1900's, I think that any coaster concept could work as the original Coney was extremely close to the airport. It could finally anchor down WindSeeker to a part of Coney that never really fit and give us possibly our first launched Wing coaster. 

[brenthodge]

12 hours ago, BB1 said:

I just want a green intamin that just so happens to be an aqua trax named YoungStud to be installed somewhere back there. (I kid I kid)

Honestly LOVE the idea of bringing a "Losantiville" experience to RiverTown; however I would much rather see that area stay with Coney Mall.  There is a lot the park could do, but something I think that would really take off would be something themed after aviation or Lunken Airport. Being a HUGE part of Cincinnati's growth in the 1900's, I think that any coaster concept could work as the original Coney was extremely close to the airport. It could finally anchor down WindSeeker to a part of Coney that never really fit and give us possibly our first launched Wing coaster. 

Love that idea. WindSeeker and the new Wing Coaster could anchor the area, retheme Jukebox to a diner at the terminal. Do something w SRR to tie into the theme and renovate old action theatre into a large hangar with some indoor flat ride that ciiiks be cool with “flight effects” 

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

16 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Rivertown needs to reflect it's original purpose...a wooded pioneer era with the industrial era that started in Losantisville.  Not a Wild West town filled with dust and saloons that you would see in gold rush era in Californie, Arizona or Nevada. Big difference. 

That's not true, I made this town like a work place, and the reason why they have all of it.

[SonofBaconator]

18 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Rivertown needs to reflect it's original purpose...a wooded pioneer era with the industrial era that started in Losantisville.  Not a Wild West town filled with dust and saloons that you would see in gold rush era in Californie, Arizona or Nevada. Big difference. 

A lot of people tend to forget that most park was essentially themed to the greater Cincinnati area when it was built. The Coney section was the old Coney Island, Oktoberfest reflected the German heritage, and Rivertown represented what the area would’ve looked like in the 1800s. It was never really themed to the Wild West, yet people tend to throw it in that category for some reason; perhaps Diamondback? 
 

Sidenote, there’s a bit of irony in Diamondback and Copperhead Strike. Eastern Diamondback rattlesnakes are typically found in the Southeastern United States such as Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas where as Copperheads are found across the Midwest as well as the North and Southern parts of the US.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

29 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

and Rivertown represented what the area would’ve looked like in the 1800s. It was never really themed to the Wild West, yet people tend to throw it in that category for some reason; perhaps Diamondback? 
 

Probably that and the train playing western music and having the old western town on the route

[brenthodge]

27 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

A lot of people tend to forget that most park was essentially themed to the greater Cincinnati area when it was built. The Coney section was the old Coney Island, Oktoberfest reflected the German heritage, and Rivertown represented what the area would’ve looked like in the 1800s. It was never really themed to the Wild West, yet people tend to throw it in that category for some reason; perhaps Diamondback? 
 

Sidenote, there’s a bit of irony in Diamondback and Copperhead Strike. Eastern Diamondback rattlesnakes are typically found in the Southeastern United States such as Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas where as Copperheads are found across the Midwest as well as the North and Southern parts of the US.

That’s what I wish the park wiujd get back to (and I honestly really see that direction coming-based on CO and Carrowinds projects that tie into local culture and park history more than “made up themes”. I think they worked with what they already had with AREA 72 and made it still tie into park history, but I don’t want Adventure Billsge back just because it was a cheap knock off of Disney Adventureland originally. I think one of the reasons Dollywood “works” is that the park as a whole is authentic to the area so the theming just makes sense in that it never tries to be exotic or escapism. It’s an extension of the area outside the gates. 

[brenthodge]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Probably that and the train playing western music and having the old western town on the route

I think the park tried to “improve” that area but blew it with the Halloween express cowboy figures. They tell the wrong story, have already been “enhanced” by employees with KI accessories, and really don’t add much. The whole area would’ve looked better with just the physical enhancements and the animals, but no people. 

[KIghostguy]

35 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

That’s what I wish the park wiujd get back to (and I honestly really see that direction coming-based on CO and Carrowinds projects that tie into local culture and park history more than “made up themes”. I think they worked with what they already had with AREA 72 and made it still tie into park history, but I don’t want Adventure Billsge back just because it was a cheap knock off of Disney Adventureland originally. I think one of the reasons Dollywood “works” is that the park as a whole is authentic to the area so the theming just makes sense in that it never tries to be exotic or escapism. It’s an extension of the area outside the gates. 

The regional history aspect was really pushed heavily by Rob Decker--look at Mystic Timbers, Copperhead Strike, HangTime, also the original Orion story was supposed to tie in very heavily to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. It's nice to see that idea still continue past his retirement and I hope that we continue to see more of it. I agree with you, it makes the park feel more relevant and authentic, and certainly more unique--a park in Florida can't have Copperhead Strike, etc.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

3 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Love that idea. WindSeeker and the new Wing Coaster could anchor the area, retheme Jukebox to a diner at the terminal. Do something w SRR to tie into the theme and renovate old action theatre into a large hangar with some indoor flat ride that ciiiks be cool with “flight effects” 

Or how about a B&M flyer? Give a nod to Firehawk and put the pretzel loop where The Vortex batwing was as a nod to Vortex. 

[BeeastFarmer]

42 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Or how about a B&M flyer? Give a nod to Firehawk and put the pretzel loop where The Vortex batwing was as a nod to Vortex. 

I would love to have a flyer vs a wing.  Unique to the market.  More fun than a wing (subjective, I realize).  I would even have no problem waiting a few years for a big, record setting coaster that ties into the Junkyard coaster space (if it's retired/relocated) and the entire area cleaned up.

 

I think the train route renovations were a positive and to the best of my memory, they could tie in to Losantisville.  Undertaker, Inn, livery etc.  This history was a predecessor to the gold rush Old West, but there was a major difference.

As to Diamondback...I wouldn't expect major thematic elements being changed.  The lexicon is a part of KI heritage now,   And if the 30 year mark is the average expected service life of a large steel coaster, we are about half way there.  

[terry wass]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Or how about a B&M flyer? Give a nod to Firehawk and put the pretzel loop where The Vortex batwing was as a nod to Vortex. 

I would love another B&M due to the high volume of guest they push through. But I just feel with the amount of B&M in thepark they might go with another manufacturer for diversity. My top 2 wishes woud be a ground up RMC as none of the woodies will ever get RMC'd and the other choice would be an intamin launch like velocicoaster/ Maverick (CP). However with the amount of down time Maverick experiences at CP not sure KI wants to go that route. Intamin may need to hit a home run with the re do of dragster in order to get new business with Cedar Fair, So I would like to see an RMC. RMC does I believe also offer magnet launch options so a launch RMC would be awesome . just my opinion.

[BB1]

10 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Love that idea. WindSeeker and the new Wing Coaster could anchor the area, retheme Jukebox to a diner at the terminal. Do something w SRR to tie into the theme and renovate old action theatre into a large hangar with some indoor flat ride that ciiiks be cool with “flight effects” 

Did I just casually make the best area for the park that just so happens to work with the Carowinds expansion concept. Heck you could even add in an Air Race at the basketball game and effectively annex a new part of the park to make a cohesive end to Coney Mall's Lunken annex. 

[Bansheelover]

17 hours ago, PKIDelirium said:

Oktoberfest outside of the Festhaus/Viking part was dead, and had been for a long time.

While my previous pitches were always for combining Oktoberfest and Action Zone into one large Oktoberfest, the amount of work involved there would be significant and very expensive, and I really like the route they’re taking with this.

Festhaus and VF could easily become either a mini-Oktoberfest with a little sprucing up there, or just become part of IS. Either works for me.

The only thing Oktoberfest that still existed in the new area was the return of the Biergarten, but with Brewhouse now existing in Rivertown, it’s not really a loss.

(Now we’ll wait and see what happens regarding B&M, SkyHigh, Fenton Rigging, Daniels Woodland and other contractors last seen for Orion…)

I'm only speculating here, but Kings Island does not have a floorless, dive or wing coaster. B&M develops very good models of each of those.  Lets start with the wing coaster.  Will be a GP pleaser, and are fun. GateKeeper is gentle and forceless, but worth a ride. Thunderbird is a lot of fun with its launch and near miss elements. Although rumor has it Holiday World made B&M sign a no build clause of "x" amount of miles from HW.  There has not been built a ground up floorless coaster since Hydra.  I have rode Hydra which I thought was a lot of fun, but Rougarou is rough and a headbanger.  Although Rougarou was a replacement for Mantis, and is not very well perceived at Cedar Point this may work at KI. KI needs an intense, multiple looping coaster since Vortex and Firehawk were removed. Since it has been multiple years since a ground up floorless has been built maybe B&M has updated the restraints and trains for it to make for a better ride.  A dive coaster is a GP pleaser, offers multiple inversions, and gives an intimidating appearance to the skyline. We have seen Cedar Fair purchase two of them, and both are very successful at the parks that have them.  It appears Cedar Fair does not care if the parks have similar coasters in their parks.  A dive coaster on The Vortex plot could be the largest of its kind. If KI was to get a new coaster I would think a Dive coaster would probably be the way they go.  Or B&M is just here help repair the current B&M coasters in the park. Time will only tell. 

[ethancoaster]

So while looking at google maps and trying to think of a replacement for Vortex, I came up with this concept: transforming the back of Coney Mall into a 50's themed section, similar to Jukebox Junction at Dollywood. There are already a couple of attractions back here that have a vintage aesthetic/name: Shake, Rattle & Roll, Antique Autos, and Jukebox Diner. I think expanding upon those attractions to make it a fully-fleshed out land similar to Adventure Port would really enhance the area. It would also allow for Backlot to be rethemed. It could retain its car chase theme, but with aesthetic upgrades and a name change to match the new area.

The centerpiece attraction would be the replacement coaster for Vortex, tentatively titled "Demon Rod". This would be a launch coaster that would pay homage to Demon, but with a hot-rod theme. Essentially, it's themed to a classic car that is possessed. The layout is designed to have nine inversions, which would give it the record for the most inversions on any launch coaster. One of them would be an in-line roll station fly-by. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I like it. What manufacturer would this be? Mack? Intamin? Vekoma? Gerstlauer? 

[ethancoaster]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I like it. What manufacturer would this be? Mack? Intamin? Vekoma? Gerstlauer? 

I think Vekoma would be the best choice since of the options mentioned above, their coasters tend to have the lowest height requirements. It could have a 48” restriction similar to Vortex. If not Vekoma then I think Gerstlauer would make a good choice.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I love you idea @ethancoaster!

[ethancoaster]

52 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I love you idea @ethancoaster!

Thank you! I’ve still been trying to think of a name that would work. Something like “Vintage Valley” or “Vintage Village”. 

[Orion742]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I like it. What manufacturer would this be? Mack? Intamin? Vekoma? Gerstlauer? 

I still hope sometime in the future we get a Mack Multi-launch.

Also has Mack ever tried to do a stall?

[brenthodge]

Like the idea, but maybe a different theme for the new coaster? Seems like a lot of car themed rides. Keep backlot and antiques the car themes. Maybe it’s just a great coaster with a loose “rock and roll” theme like RocketRocker -launched like you proposed. On board audio of 4-5 great classic rock soundtracks tgg HD at change each ride. Maybe 1-2 themed tunnels with simple lighting effects. 
DoWahDitty City

SockHop City

be a perfect tie in with TinselTown during WinterFest

[purdude86]

Love the 50's theme and as mentioned there's already lots of 50's stuff there. I do agree with brenthodge that I would change the theme of the new coaster to something more rock and roll or something else generic 50's. Car is easy to theme but with KM Antique Autos and BLSC being included it would be a lot of car themed rides. Be easiest with BLSC to keep car theming and just give it a hot rod type theme and some new décor, and then do something else for the new coaster. 

Could also expand it back into the Action Theatre area too if they wanted to add more to the land for a second phase/expansion.

[Klabergian Empire]

Coney Mall is technically 50's themed. Remember, Coney Mall is themed after how Coney Island looked in its heyday.

Personally, I feel the Mall should be extended to the turnaround on Red Racer, add a few flat rides, and use the rest of Vortex's old spot for a new coaster. I also feel that BLST should either be moved somewhere else in the park (like to Area 72 with a retheme) or removed entirely so that its land could be incorporated into a new coaster that also takes up some of Vortex's old spot. And maybe add a new skyride that traverses the length of the Mall.

[ethancoaster]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:31 AM, purdude86 said:

Love the 50's theme and as mentioned there's already lots of 50's stuff there. I do agree with brenthodge that I would change the theme of the new coaster to something more rock and roll or something else generic 50's. Car is easy to theme but with KM Antique Autos and BLSC being included it would be a lot of car themed rides. Be easiest with BLSC to keep car theming and just give it a hot rod type theme and some new décor, and then do something else for the new coaster. 

Could also expand it back into the Action Theatre area too if they wanted to add more to the land for a second phase/expansion.

I see what you mean by saying that it could be redundant, but I also think having three car-themed rides actually allows for a gradation in the intensity of the rides as well as a consistent theme throughout the land. Area 72 has two space-themed rollercoasters right next to each other, but the way their theming is executed makes them feel like distinct experiences. I feel like the same could be done with this hypothetical 50’s section.

 

I think the rock and roll theme would actually fit better with a BLSC retheme. You could name it “Hot Rod Highway” and theme the billboards and set pieces to reflect local southern Ohio towns in the 50’s, and add some music and lighting effects to the tunnel synced with music.

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

Here's a hot take. What if CF built an expansive, high-capacity 50s themed go-kart track on the old Vortex plot? Thunder Alley has been gone for ten years now, so the park has been missing an attraction of that nature.

[IBEW_Sparky]

That would never go... Thunder Alley left for reasons, and those reasons are even more relevant now to make it anywhere close to profitable, and if its not a profitable upcharge, CF wants no part of it.

 

Edited to add thoughts on what I'd Love to see there..... Since we wont get a Blitz, Id Love to see a Gerstlauer Infinity like Monster at Adventureland.

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, CorkscrewMcPuke said:

Here's a hot take. What if CF built an expansive, high-capacity 50s themed go-kart track on the old Vortex plot? Thunder Alley has been gone for ten years now, so the park has been missing an attraction of that nature.

No. 

[brenthodge]

6 hours ago, ethancoaster said:

I see what you mean by saying that it could be redundant, but I also think having three car-themed rides actually allows for a gradation in the intensity of the rides as well as a consistent theme throughout the land. Area 72 has two space-themed rollercoasters right next to each other, but the way their theming is executed makes them feel like distinct experiences. I feel like the same could be done with this hypothetical 50’s section.

 

I think the rock and roll theme would actually fit better with a BLSC retheme. You could name it “Hot Rod Highway” and theme the billboards and set pieces to reflect local southern Ohio towns in the 50’s, and add some music and lighting effects to the tunnel synced with music.

HotRod Highway sounds great, but you now have 2 “hot rod” rides with DemonRod or whatever that band was. Area 72 has a UFO “mindtrip ” indoor roller coaster and a “space exploration training module” loosely themed  Giga Coaster. Seems like they are more different than just 2 space themed rides. I’d say still keep the new coaster music themed. Even if it was surf or dive it could play into 50s surf music. 

[KI Guy]

The Coney Island theme was supposed to be Coney Island "after the turn of the [20th] century."

If a coaster is to go on The Vortex plot, I say build an RMC hybrid inspired by the look of the Coney Wildcat.