New Single-Use Fast Lane System

[DispatchMaster]

12 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

...what’s your bottom line worth once you start to reliably inconvenience the “regular” guest?

From a business perspective, it's always better to sell one item at $1,000,000 profit rather than 1,000,000 items at $1 profit/each. In other words, amusement parks should be aiming for the highest-spending guest as much as possible, even if it inconveniences the "regular" guest.

[disco2000]

2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

From a business perspective, it's always better to sell one item at $1,000,000 profit rather than 1,000,000 items at $1 profit/each. In other words, amusement parks should be aiming for the highest-spending guest as much as possible, even if it inconveniences the "regular" guest.

They did that with the Prestige pass and then pulled the ole "bait and switch", thus ticking off their highest spending guests, many of which have every possible season-pass add-on and buy extra food and merch on many visits and certainly drove up the per cap numbers.  So what happens when they tick off the regular guest and the highest spending guests....

[Gordon Bombay]

3 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

From a business perspective, it's always better to sell one item at $1,000,000 profit rather than 1,000,000 items at $1 profit/each. In other words, amusement parks should be aiming for the highest-spending guest as much as possible, even if it inconveniences the "regular" guest.

Should print this out and post it in the guest services office. 

[KI Guy]

4 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

From a business perspective, it's always better to sell one item at $1,000,000 profit rather than 1,000,000 items at $1 profit/each. In other words, amusement parks should be aiming for the highest-spending guest as much as possible, even if it inconveniences the "regular" guest.

No, it's not. From a business perspective their goal is to maximize revenue in both the short term and long term.

There are not enough "premium" buyers to sustain the business on their own. Not only that, but if even theoretically everyone becomes a premium buyer, no one is a premium buyer and no one is happy.

The bedrock of Kings Island's business model is families who buy season passes or who go once or twice a year. If you provide a lousy experience to today's "regular buyer," why would he become a premium buyer when his financial situation changes?

Lastly, I'd imagine very few guests are premium buyers their first time at the park, (or after a long time away), so it has to be leaving some with a less than optimal first impression.

[DispatchMaster]

11 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

...if even theoretically everyone becomes a premium buyer, no one is a premium buyer and no one is happy.

Since when is happiness relative to other people's happiness? That doesn't make sense. If I'm happy, someone else also being happy doesn't make me less happy.

Regardless, I think you're missing the point, which is that any company would prefer lower variable costs (low attendance) if they can maintain profit margin. The ONLY reason this isn't feasible in KI's case is because there's not a market adequate to support that business model, and/or KI simply isn't high end enough to attract those customers. Those people are going to Disney.

But the point I was making is that it's nonsensical to suggest KI should forgo revenue at the expense of the "regular" guest experience. If we assume daily attendance at $50/each is 15,000, the park would prefer instead to entertain 5,000 guests per day at $150/each. That would result in roughly 67% less time waiting in line, therefore a better guest experience, and an equal if not better profit margin given lower variability in consumables cost.

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Since when is happiness relative to other people's happiness? That doesn't make sense. If I'm happy, someone else also being happy doesn't make me less happy.

Regardless, I think you're missing the point, which is that any company would prefer lower variable costs (low attendance) if they can maintain profit margin. The ONLY reason this isn't feasible in KI's case is because there's not a market adequate to support that business model, and/or KI simply isn't high end enough to attract those customers. Those people are going to Disney.

But the point I was making is that it's nonsensical to suggest KI should forgo revenue at the expense of the "regular" guest experience. If we assume daily attendance at $50/each is 15,000, the park would prefer instead to entertain 5,000 guests per day at $150/each. That would result in roughly 67% less time waiting in line, therefore a better guest experience, and an equal if not better profit margin given lower variability in consumables cost.

While I understand your point, if that were the case, they would have simply increased the rates of daily admission and season passes as a way to limit attendance.  The costs of these items have not kept up with inflation, increased staffing pay, etc. and is priced well under the value it offers.  Increase the price of everything and give everyone the same experience.

But oh wait before Covid thru a curve to everything, Disney was employing that concept as a way to control attendance and attendance records kept getting broken.  They attributed the increased attendance even though higher prices had a psychological effect of being more exclusive and more for the rich, so it encouraged even more people to go so they could brag that they could still afford Disney to the friends and neighbors...

Now as it relates to CF, they have proven (short term obviously post-covid) that they can have lower attendance like was seen in 2022, yet have record profits. 

While 2022 attendance was down 4% compared to pre-covid 2019, full year 2022 revenue was up 23% compared to pre-covid 2019, thus proving you don't have to give away the gate and have increased attendance every year and can still produce record revenue...

As much as many hate to see it, I suspect until the tide turns, we will continue to see upcharge premium offerings as it is a way to increase per-cap spending for those already in the park or as in incentive to purchase premium offerings.

The problem they have to solve is where is that balance.  If for every guest that says "screw this" and doesn't come back because they had a horrible experience standing in the regular line and saw the same person in FastLane lap them 25 times before they rode it, there are 4 guests that buy the upcharge, things won't change.  It will change when "regular" and "premium" guests attendance and spending go down.

I really thought we would see that at Cedar Point, but people keep going.  Last year more than ever they seemed to get slammed on social media for long wait times (regular and Fast Lane), many rides not running, few food places open, etc. and yet people still go up there like it is a premium experience.  Even having Fast Lane up there is a not enjoyable experience at the moment.

[DoomPlague]

The single-use fastlane doesn't bother me, unless they start selling so many that it screws over the standby line as others have mentioned. While I would never use it myself at a park where I've ridden everything and can always come back, this could be a good option at other parks on those days where the full Fast Lane is mostly unnecessary. I imagine people visiting KI from another state with no plans to come back soon might find themselves wanting only to skip the Flight of Fear line or whatever other line is disproportionately long.

I've always been of the mind that KI makes most of its money from people who are not like thrifty-ole-me and I benefit from that. All the people buying souvenirs, fast lanes, funpix, lockers, etc etc are contributing to CF staying afloat and investing back into the parks. The idea that everyone can have the same or similar experience is frankly unrealistic. As far as the high number of guests vs higher prices, that's obviously just a balancing act. CF probably has analytics that help them decide the optimal price point.

On a side note, yesterday I saw a couple younger people use what looked like the single-use fast lanes (like the prestige pass ones) on Mystic Timbers but even from the entrance you could see that the standby line was only to the bottom of the steps. It saved them one or two dispatches.

[IBEW_Sparky]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

 

The problem they have to solve is where is that balance.  If for every guest that says "screw this" and doesn't come back because they had a horrible experience standing in the regular line and saw the same person in FastLane lap them 25 times before they rode it, there are 4 guests that buy the upcharge, things won't change.  It will change when "regular" and "premium" guests attendance and spending go down.

I really thought we would see that at Cedar Point, but people keep going.  Last year more than ever they seemed to get slammed on social media for long wait times (regular and Fast Lane), many rides not running, few food places open, etc. and yet people still go up there like it is a premium experience.  Even having Fast Lane up there is a not enjoyable experience at the moment.

That last sentence is 1000% true, we were up there 2 weekends ago, and from a ride and food service operations standpoint, it was beyond atrocious on Saturday...... all but about 10% of the workforce needed pinkslipped and walked out the gate.  I used to call CP the good Ohio park, and have been proven COMPLETELY wrong this year.  Ever since Mr McClure took a promotion and is no longer GM of CP, its tanked big time.  It is now 100% a weekday park, and for someone who doesnt want to take a Thursday AND Friday, or a Monday AND Tuesday off to accommodate travel, it looks as if Ive become a more frequent KI goer.  Its not the rides that are better, SV alone is enough for me to give CP that win, but it is the entire general experience that is far better in general with some notable exceptions.

[disco2000]

50 minutes ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

That last sentence is 1000% true, we were up there 2 weekends ago, and from a ride and food service operations standpoint, it was beyond atrocious on Saturday...... all but about 10% of the workforce needed pinkslipped and walked out the gate.  I used to call CP the good Ohio park, and have been proven COMPLETELY wrong this year.  Ever since Mr McClure took a promotion and is no longer GM of CP, its tanked big time.  It is now 100% a weekday park, and for someone who doesnt want to take a Thursday AND Friday, or a Monday AND Tuesday off to accommodate travel, it looks as if Ive become a more frequent KI goer.  Its not the rides that are better, SV alone is enough for me to give CP that win, but it is the entire general experience that is far better in general with some notable exceptions.

I don't even know if I would call it a weekday park - certainly better than a Saturday but weekdays are way more crowded and less staffed than prior to 2019 weekdays, but my weekday visit experience is enough that I doubt I will go up again this year.

I know many that have wrote that park off until they see improvements to the experience.  I wrote off Halloweekends after the 2019 fiasco and haven't seen any social media posts indicating it has improved any.  I am about ready to right off any visits there.  Just not a fun experience at the moment.

And a single Fast Lane use if implemented at Cedar Point will be a nightmare.  FastLane can already exceed 45 minutes there.

[BeeastFarmer]

A bad day at a park is better than a good day at work. 

[KI Guy]

10 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Since when is happiness relative to other people's happiness? That doesn't make sense. If I'm happy, someone else also being happy doesn't make me less happy.

Your thoughts on happiness are admirable when used as a general outlook on life. However, at an amusement park the average guest will have the best time when their rides-to-time ratio is high. Nobody likes waiting. This is why paid line skipping systems now exist.

Also, many consumers (to their detriment) do base their contentment on their position relative to others. There's a reason the newest pass is called a "prestige" pass and that it includes a "V.I.P." area.

10 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

If we assume daily attendance at $50/each is 15,000, the park would prefer instead to entertain 5,000 guests per day at $150/each.

Yes they would, but there's a breaking point. As sales of Fast Lane and its growing number of variants increase the less relative benefit for each Fast Lane customer. Also, as Fast Lane grows the lesser the experience for the traditional "non-premium" guest. Some of these guests will not come back also lessening the benefit of Fast Lane and potentially threatening the health of the customer base.

What you may not be considering is that long-term negative effects of business decisions are not always readily apparent or initially understood. And with stock trading corporations business decisions can skew towards the short-term to grow stock prices for a quarter at the expense of the long-term health of the business. Hopefully for Cedar Fair they've done their due diligence researching this. One of the last things they would want to do is slowly corrode the goodwill they've built up over the decades with their bread and butter guests.

9 hours ago, disco2000 said:

While I understand your point, if that were the case, they would have simply increased the rates of daily admission and season passes as a way to limit attendance.

Fast Lane's making them reluctant or unable to do this is another less obvious con of having the system. As we've discussed here, lower price points, (and meal plans) encourage using the park as a daycare which has helped give rise to some of the problems the park has faced the last several years.

[super7]

Cedar Fair sells cheap season passes. So they make their money by gouging in other ways.    This definitely reduces the quality of the average customer experience but they don’t care of the low season pass price

[NegativeGs]

If FL on a Saturday currently costs $135 and there are (in my opinion) ten coasters and two flat rides an infrequent visitor to KI would want to ride and be willing to pay an upcharge for - if this visitor rides each of those rides and perhaps 50% on them again, that puts a price on each ride of $7.50. However, as this new product is à la carte, perhaps a single FL should cost twice that and be $15? As a Season Pass FL(+) holder, I wouldn’t feel CF selling single-use FL at $15 would dilute the value of my purchase.

[Coastercrush]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:58 PM, super7 said:

Cedar Fair sells cheap season passes. So they make their money by gouging in other ways.    This definitely reduces the quality of the average customer experience but they don’t care of the low season pass price

Cedar Fair passes is like planet fitness.  Most people that buy a pass may only use it once.  People that use a lot are few and far between 

[jdf21972]

Just thinking here but this is the first time in 4 years that all season Fast Lane has not sold out yet before Memorial Day and the parks are trying to make up that lost revenue with a single use Fast Lane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coastercrush]

34 minutes ago, jdf21972 said:

Just thinking here but this is the first time in 4 years that all season Fast Lane has not sold out yet before Memorial Day and the parks are trying to make up that lost revenue with a single use Fast Lane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They increased all season flp ptice by almost 200$

[Kenban]

I am hopeful this means the spin the wheel, gambling form of Fast Lane, will be removed from the park.  I really prefer guests just paying and getting exactly what they want.

I assume corporate has not changed their policy on Fast Lane, which means at most 50% of a ride’s capacity can be used for Fast Lane.  Every ride has handled that differently but that’s why Cedar Point used one station for Fast Lane and one for the regular queue on dragster.  If Fast Lane already had a line and the policy was followed before, the stand by line should be unchanged.  But at least at Kings Island I very rarely see much of a line for Fast Lane so adding additional people to the Fast Lane will typically slow the regular line.

The parks own advertising for Fast Lane is “Wait less. Ride more!”, capacity of the rides is unchanged, for someone to ride more others must ride less.  The average wait time for the regular line basically has to be going up.

Season long Fast Lane, and other season long products like the meal and drink plans change people’s habits.  They encourage pass holders to visit more frequently.  I have just about everything on my pass, and even before season long Fast Lane if I was in the area I would drop by for a “free” meal.  Season long Fast Lane means I don’t care if it’s a holiday or weekend.  I visit much more frequently, and except for food lines really don’t care how busy the park will be, for me the ride lines are still very short.  I just don’t see this changing much.

My biggest concerns are Flight of Fear, and Night rides on The Beast.  Most of the time at Kings Island, Fast Lane has a very minimal wait, and I do not believe for most rides this product will have a huge affect on either line.  Disney Lightning Lane is timed for a reason, most rides do not enforce it, but Tron for instance does, because of the concern of people buying a time earlier in the day and waiting until dark for a night ride.  I am hopeful Kings Island will be using timed entry to prevent a ride getting overwhelmed at the end of the night, but I doubt it.

[zac2211]

Has anyone seen these being sold at the park yet?

[purdude86]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:29 AM, brenthodge said:

Or do a 2 tier like Dollywood where you can get one with a set number of punches (more than ride options) that you can use 1x each at different rides, or all at one ride, but when they are done they are done unless you have the “unlimited” version, but it seems crazy there, because I think it’s only a 10-20.00 difference. I’d suggest making it like BASIC 69.00, UNLIMITED 209.00 ( random numbers, but you get the idea) 

I agree. I like the option of the tiers, but I think it's done more as a way to make the actual pass seem like a better deal. This is done a lot in marketing, especially food sales, where a tier is added slightly below the top just to make the top tier look more appealing. If you're already spending $60  dollars to skip the line a few times, what is another $10-20 for unlimited use. For many individual and couples it just makes sense to buy the top tier, I feel like families are the only area where it might make them second guess. If buying for 4-5 you are now saving $100 and still get to ride everything once. But if they made it twice the cost for the unlimited more would probably opt for the single use, but I don't think that's what the park is really after. They are just trying to entice more people to buy the higher option. They could even just make the single use the same price as normal and then make the unlimited double that and still make the same (or a little more), but it will then make the standard line more reasonable likely resulting in less appeal to buy the Fast Lane potentially hurting sales. either that or they just sell more single use fastlanes to make up for the lack of rerides in the FL line.

[BoddaH1994]

If someone is dumb enough to drop $20 to ride FOF, they can collectively fund the next coaster. That’s cool. 

[SonofBaconator]

I always thought Fastlane was a genius concept because it’s almost pure profit with the only reoccurring expenses being the physical printing of the tickets. If someone wants to spend money to avoid waiting, why stop them?

[CoastersRZ]

To be fair, they do sometimes staff an extra position on some of the coasters (separator) to manage the merge point between standby and Fastlane, so there are some operating costs associated with it.  Not having the station packed in with people does make it easier to get your party on the same train.

[flightoffear1996]

I would be a buyer at Cedar Point as I can never get a ride on Valraven when we go.  Its either a two hour long wait or its broken down.  

[LuvingKI]

I havent seen any single ride fastlanes being offered at CP so far, unless I've missed them.

[Tijjer]

I don't really think Cedar Fair needs to be adding more fastpasses.  If a park has to revolve a large part of their business model around selling more fastpasses then I either get the thought that there is some nickel and diming shenanigans going on or have become too dependent on them in order to make a profit.  I'll wait to see how things play out some more, but these do leave me a bit cautious as to where they are going with these.  One of the last things I want to see Kings Island adopt is a certain mouse's "genius" genie system. 

[NegativeGs]

I saw today that single use FL were for sale. Today was a busy Saturday and Orion cost $15 and Flight of Fear cost a whopping $20. I also saw people queuing to buy the single use FL. In comparison all day FL was $135.

[jimlaheyscar]

2 hours ago, NegativeGs said:

I saw today that single use FL were for sale. Today was a busy Saturday and Orion cost $15 and Flight of Fear cost a whopping $20. I also saw people queuing to buy the single use FL. In comparison all day FL was $135.

 Earlier, during the week, it was $5 for Orion, $7.50 for FOF.

 

[robintodd]

10 hours ago, jimlaheyscar said:

 Earlier, during the week, it was $5 for Orion, $7.50 for FOF.

 

Seems to be priced according to crowd size like I believe Fast Lane is.  Frankly if the crowd size is small enough to only charge $5 for Orion then in my opinion don't sell it.  I think they should only be sold on very busy days.  Seems like a money grab to have people spend $5 to skip a 30 minute wait.  

[BeeastFarmer]

24 minutes ago, robintodd said:

Seems to be priced according to crowd size like I believe Fast Lane is.  Frankly if the crowd size is small enough to only charge $5 for Orion then in my opinion don't sell it.  I think they should only be sold on very busy days.  Seems like a money grab to have people spend $5 to skip a 30 minute wait.  

But if people want it, then why not?  I mean, per caps mean higher revenue, future investment, debt reduction and unitholder satisfaction.

[disco2000]

21 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

But if people want it, then why not?  I mean, per caps mean higher revenue, future investment, debt reduction and unitholder satisfaction.

Don't forget bigger bonuses, car allowances and dry cleaning allowances