Banshee Train Incident 9/28/24

[Tr0y]

Last night, Barney Fife had control of the brakes on Banshee. Two trains ended up colliding and Banshee finished the day operating with 1 train.

No injuries reported.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1o7Y9FNpZ1XcsjP2/?

[PKIVortex]

Last night, Barney Fife had control of the brakes on Banshee. Two trains ended up colliding and Banshee finished the day operating with 1 train.
No injuries reported.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1o7Y9FNpZ1XcsjP2/?

Found this on reddit. That looks pretty bad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[SonofBaconator]

I wonder if taking it to two train ops during rain in future would be the move as it would leave more space between trains.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Moved this to its own thread. 

[CedarPointer]

And why exactly was it open today after having an ACCIDENT yesterday? Doesn't make me feel very safe as a guest.

[Bwb.32]

2 minutes ago, CedarPointer said:

And why exactly was it open today after having an ACCIDENT yesterday? Doesn't make me feel very safe as a guest.

well to be 100% fair, the worst that'll happen now that its 1 train ops, is overshoot the station and latch up on the lift, cant run in to another train again, if there's no other train on the track

[SonofBaconator]

25 minutes ago, CedarPointer said:

And why exactly was it open today after having an ACCIDENT yesterday? Doesn't make me feel very safe as a guest.

If they’re operating one train, you won’t see collision issues. Even if they went to 2 trains ops, they could space the trains out enough to minimize the chance of rain affecting the breaks.

 

This could happen with any coaster that’s exposed to the elements.

[disco2000]

11 hours ago, CedarPointer said:

And why exactly was it open today after having an ACCIDENT yesterday? Doesn't make me feel very safe as a guest.

 

Um....it actually re-opened same day a short time later after they removed the two trains....

[CedarPointer]

11 hours ago, Bwb.32 said:

well to be 100% fair, the worst that'll happen now that its 1 train ops, is overshoot the station and latch up on the lift, cant run in to another train again, if there's no other train on the track

That's fair, but it makes you wonder what else is wrong with the ride. Especially since guests who were on the ride are reporting injuries, which I have to assume is true, given the park's failure to communicate differently.

[ShedTreeBoi1]

Banshee having it's greatest operating season so far.

[DJSkyFoxx]

I was about to say Banshee really is out here having the worst time this season. Definitely hope no more bad things happen before the season is out.

[disco2000]

30 minutes ago, DJSkyFoxx said:

I was about to say Banshee really is out here having the worst time this season. Definitely hope no more bad things happen before the season is out.

Time to remove it for Son of Beast 2.0 

[DJSkyFoxx]

3 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Time to remove it for Son of Beast 2.0 

Just combine the two and make the tallest, fastest only wooden invert on the planet! 

[IBEW_Sparky]

And design it in-house, since it worked so well last time!  

[Browntggrr]

Valravn had a collision in 2019.

Makes me wonder if it is a B&M block issue, wet track issue or some type of operator issue.

Glad to hear the accident was not serious enough to cause injuries.

[RedSummit20]

47 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

Valravn had a collision in 2019.

Makes me wonder if it is a B&M block issue, wet track issue or some type of operator issue.

Glad to heat the accident was not serious enough to cause injuries.

FAR FAR FAR from operator issue. Once those dispatch buttons are pressed and the train clears the lift, the train wont stop till the break run. So again FAR FAR FAR from operator issue.  

[BoddaH1994]

39 minutes ago, RedSummit20 said:

FAR FAR FAR from operator issue. Once those dispatch buttons are pressed and the train clears the lift, the train wont stop till the break run. So again FAR FAR FAR from operator issue.  

My understanding is that there was some sort of software procedure glitch that caused the Valraven issue. Something like, the PLC thought it had one more train or one less train than it actually had. 

[Browntggrr]

2 hours ago, RedSummit20 said:

FAR FAR FAR from operator issue. Once those dispatch buttons are pressed and the train clears the lift, the train wont stop till the break run. So again FAR FAR FAR from operator issue.  

You can guarantee that statement?

[Bwb.32]

10 hours ago, CedarPointer said:

That's fair, but it makes you wonder what else is wrong with the ride. Especially since guests who were on the ride are reporting injuries, which I have to assume is true, given the park's failure to communicate differently.

welp, i hate to have this perspective, but, i wouldn't be surprised with guests backtracking post incident, even after not electing to be seen, I.E. SOB Blood vessel bursting incident. 

Per Ohio state law an accident is defined as:  "Accident" means an occurrence during the operation of an amusement ride that results in death or injury requiring immediate hospital admission.

Had one of the guests involved elected for immediate attention the following should have happened immediately: 
 

(K) Procedures required in the event of an accident.

(1) The owner of an amusement ride or device shall maintain records of all accidents and serious injuries and make reports of all accidents occurring on a ride or device as follows:

(a) In the case of an accident as defined in section 993.01 of the Revised Code, the owner shall immediately notify the department by telephone or in person and subsequently file a written report with the department within twenty-four hours of the accident.

(b) Accidents will be reported on forms provided by the department or similar forms.

(2) After an accident that occurs as a result of the action of the ride or device involved, it shall be taken out of operation and the department immediately notified. Until the department gives the owner permission, the ride or device shall remain out of operation and undisturbed, unless an accident scene has to be altered because it is necessary to administer medical assistance to a patron, free of any changes from the condition of the ride or device at the time of the accident. If the accident occurs during department working hours, the owner shall notify the department by telephone. If the accident occurs during department nonworking hours, the owner will notify the department on a toll-free telephone number provided by the department which features an automatic answering service or device. The owner shall not disturb the scene of the accident until after either reinspection or approval of the department. However, the amusement ride or device owner may take witness information, including addresses, telephone numbers and statements.

Personally, i don't believe the park to be in the business of breaking state law, so id say its safe to assume the guests reporting of any potential injuries, took place post incident, likely the next day after the incident.

Edited September 30 by Bwb.32
grammar

[Bwb.32]

19 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

You can guarantee that statement?

ghost trains are an INCREDIBLY common occurrence, typically maintenance is supposed to catch that when transferring trains on, and before handing off the ride to the operators, but its not unheard of for it to happen, let alone be passed to the operators in this state. 

to learn more about this in depth, see this reference, its a bit long winded, but explains exactly how you can both, accidentally add a ghost train, as well as accidentally erase an active train running in operation from the block system:

 

Edited September 30 by Bwb.32
formatting errors

[Chuckatronics]

On 9/29/2024 at 4:42 PM, Tr0y said:

Last night, Barney Fife had control of the brakes on Banshee. Two trains ended up colliding and Banshee finished the day operating with 1 train.

No injuries reported.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1o7Y9FNpZ1XcsjP2/?

Who was at fault for this? My buddy was on one of the cars that collided.

[Browntggrr]

^ I have unfortunately been part of many accident investigations and have learned that during the initial stages of the investigation. no root cause can be eliminated.

What needs to be done is try & repeat the actions prior to the accident.

I believe both the park along with B&M will try to replicate it and conduct numerous interviews with all staff.

[Kenban]

I was not at the park but the rain on Saturday was extremely heavy at times in the region.  This would not be the first coaster to have two trains bump each other due to rain reducing the stopping power of the brakes.  I am sure there will be an investigation, but personally my guess is just too much water on the brakes.  If I remember right, around 20 years ago Magnum slipped through the brakes hitting the train in front of it at Cedar Point.

Some parks have a policy to remove a train from the track if possible, when it is raining.  Coasters that typically run 3 trains drop to 2, and coasters that run 2 go to a single train.  If there had only been two trains, I suspect this would not have occurred.  We might see some policy changes come out of this.

[Tr0y]

I wonder if KI can just Frankenstein a second Banshee train using the undamaged carts till the repairs are made for the time being.

Haunt being a busy time of year it would be vital to regain some of the ride’s capacity, IMO.

[TombRaiderFTW]

I think you're gonna be hard-pressed to see Banshee operate with more than one train until a thorough investigation is complete. I'd even go so far as to speculate that Banshee won't regain a second (or third) train until 2025, or the very end of Haunt at the soonest.

On 9/30/2024 at 3:22 PM, BoddaH1994 said:

My understanding is that there was some sort of software procedure glitch that caused the Valraven issue. Something like, the PLC thought it had one more train or one less train than it actually had. 

Gonna take a guess here that the PLC thought Valravn had one fewer train than it actually had. If it had one extra/a ghost train, I would expect that the PLC would have put an extra block between the train in the station and the train on the brakes and refused to advance the train on the brakes to the next available block.

On an unrelated gripe: KI PR hasn't released any kind of statement about Banshee's collision, and I think that is the most aggravating and disheartening move possible in this scenario. People should not be learning about this incident from Reddit--you've got to get ahead of the story! Every single amusement park in the United States is operating in spite of a cultural narrative that they are unsafe and operated by dishonest people who cover up safety incidents to make a dollar. The minute you don't set the record straight and you let social media control the narrative, you lend credence to that idea--and if that idea grows too big, it WILL hurt the industry, and especially the park.

The distance between Carowinds's communication on Fury 325's support crack and Kings Island's communication on the Banshee incidents is staggering. It almost feels like there's a Titanic-like hubris among KI's PR leader(s)...

[RedSummit20]

On 9/30/2024 at 4:51 PM, Browntggrr said:

You can guarantee that statement?

well yeah actually I can, i use to work at Kings Island, i worked Diamondback, its the same control panel...so yes..

[IndyGuy4KI]

 

17 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

On an unrelated gripe: KI PR hasn't released any kind of statement about Banshee's collision, and I think that is the most aggravating and disheartening move possible in this scenario. People should not be learning about this incident from Reddit--you've got to get ahead of the story! Every single amusement park in the United States is operating in spite of a cultural narrative that they are unsafe and operated by dishonest people who cover up safety incidents to make a dollar. The minute you don't set the record straight and you let social media control the narrative, you lend credence to that idea--and if that idea grows too big, it WILL hurt the industry, and especially the park.

The distance between Carowinds's communication on Fury 325's support crack and Kings Island's communication on the Banshee incidents is staggering. It almost feels like there's a Titanic-like hubris among KI's PR leader(s)...

It seems no one learned anything from the last incident.

The "We know there are pictures and knowledge of the incident online, but there is nothing to see here; move along." attitude  does nothing but tarnish your name and brand as a whole. If they are going to just pretend something didn't happen what else are they hiding? I don't want to feel that way about KI,  I care deeply to see Kings Island and SIX be successful. I volunteer a lot of my own time to promote its success.  I am just as dumbfounded by this action as you.

Edited just to add: By not addressing this, you are slapping everyone in the maintenance department in the face. They work their butts off to keep us safe and give KI a good name in safety.  Failing to support them when it matters most shows them they aren't truly valued.

[Tr0y]

From what I’ve noticed, there is a growing contention of “silence is key” tactic amongst companies in regards to social media when it comes to negative events. In a sense, companies are not wanting to not draw attention to it or maybe they’re hoping you either don’t hear about it or forget.

Ive notice this with Disney and more recently with Boars Head when they had their recent listeria outbreak any questions was answered with an automated response and a link to their recall page, no mention of the outbreak.

Luckily I didn’t get sick, however some folks weren’t as fortunate. 10 people died.

https://x.com/RichKleinCrisis/status/1816866987886235789

[BeeastFarmer]

I agree and disagree. For enthusiasts, a public statement seems to warranted. But for the GP, is it?

When the teacher died at Raptor, CP made a statement. KI did not make an early statement on Banshee. Did it hurt the park?  Did Banshee ridership decline?  I don't know from objective or subjective data or experience.

Likewise, I don't have any objective or subjective data on the Banshee bump, but there hasn't been a lot of chatter about the Banshee bump and people lined up to ride it.

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I agree and disagree. For enthusiasts, a public statement seems to warranted. But for the GP, is it?

When the teacher died at Raptor, CP made a statement. KI did not make an early statement on Banshee. Did it hurt the park?  Did Banshee ridership decline?  I don't know from objective or subjective data or experience.

Likewise, I don't have any objective or subjective data on the Banshee bump, but there hasn't been a lot of chatter about the Banshee bump and people lined up to ride it.

I agree.  As enthusiasts we want to know every little detail, but I don't think the GP really cares.  Look how surprised the GP is about a new attraction announcement even though it had been decoded on social media channels for days/weeks/months...

Regarding the differences between the Raptor and Banshee incidents, the difference though was initial rumors of Raptor was that someone was ejected from the ride.  The park wanted to get out ahead of that. And it was the "infancy" of social media where there was more interaction from companies because social media was a new thing everyone was wanting to be part of.

Whereas the Banshee death this summer, from the very beginning it was rumored that a guest jumped fences into restricted areas, and that was factual. That story ended at the very beginning.  The park issued a statement to the media and the media reported on it and the GP accepted what the media was reporting and it became old news quickly.  There was nothing to gain from the park issuing a statement as the GP had already moved on to other news.  When Banshee reopened, its ridership was like nothing happened.  Had the park made social media posts, it would have been flooded with what we saw flooding the news media posts - "Darwin award winner" "Stupid idiot" "Can't you read" and much worse stuff.  Then the park is put in the situation of do they let some of these types of comments (and some derogatory comments people made elsewhere) sit on their official social media channels, or do they delete those and then get beat up for censoring posts and then the story continues to have stay relevant.  They wanted it it behind them.  If they don't engage, the story goes away....

A lot has changed in the social media landscape since that Raptor incident.

As Tr0y pointed out, many companies are taking the silence is best approach to negative issues.  Boar's Head has 10 deaths associated with it and no comment about their thoughts are with the families of those that died, blah blah blah.  Just some generic posting about they take health and safety seriously.

Just because we think companies should be transparent and spill every little incident, they are paying people big bucks that have apparently decided that silence is the better long term strategy.  Take the lumps quick and move on.  Maybe legal is telling them or maybe the marketing folks above the park level have decided, who knows, but that is the trend we are seeing if we look big picture at different industries.  Many companies are cutting back their posting frequency in general, then when they are silent when an issue happens, it doesn't look odd because they don't post frequently to begin with.

The GP have short attention spans.  Let it run its course in social media, usually a day or a couple of days and the GP moves on.  Once the company starts engaging, the story lives on and stays relevant and on the top of people's minds.  There is a reason why when Elon or Trump attack people, the people don't engage in a response.  It will be old news tomorrow unless the company engages in a back and forth.

Take the bump this weekend.  It was the chatter among guests on Saturday and yet they still got in line to ride it.  Many were talking about the bump while in line to ride it.  Didn't bother them in the least. Same with Sunday.  KI posting about it will make it sound like a bigger deal than it was and may actually do more harm from the GP perspective.  We are enthusiasts and want to know every minute detail.  The GP doesn't.  Do you know how much goes on behind the scenes we are never made aware of....Do they have to report to us about every popped nail hammered back in or split board that was replaced on The Beast as part of the daily inspections....What good would it do....

While we want to know every detail, the park isn't under obligation to post about it.  I am sure there is stuff that happens that our curiosity would love to know about, but there is no good that comes out of them posting it.