Critical tone on the forum

[malem]

In recent weeks, we've noticed that the tone on the forum has taken a sharply critical turn, and we'd like to ask for everyone's help in fixing it.

KIC is all about sharing our appreciation for the park and the industry, and we want to keep the discussion as open to as many opinions as possible. At the same time, snarky comments make the forum less fun to read and contribute to. It's getting old, and we need it to stop.

Specifically, we're asking that critical comments be respectful; sarcasm and exaggeration should be avoided. Ideally, tell the park how they should improve; Kings Island is always looking for feedback here and on social media. Honest opinions and experiences, both positive and negative, are always welcome to be shared here.

If you see posts that are creating an overly negative tone, reminding the poster to keep it constructive and/or using the "Report" button would be most appreciated. Thanks everyone for your attention to this matter.

-Your KIC mods

[silver2005]

I will stop posting my bits in the decoding topic and post what I need to here.  I think there is a lot of mistreatment of members on the forum in that thread.  People keep throwing around descriptions that people are 'negative', even when bringing up simple criticisms.  Just because we cover a 'fun' topic such as amusement parks doesn't omit the site from this kind of stuff happening.  Throwing around a blanket statement that people are being 'negative' with no context is hurtful.  Its dismissive of those who are bringing up criticisms and problems they see and the people throwing it around are just brushing it aside as if just labeling people as 'negative' is in and of itself a solution.  If you can't take the time to say why people are being overly negative (no matter how obvious it may seem to you) or get reduced to smearing others, then you either don't have an argument, you are just being lazy in assuming people understand, or simply don't care.  Quit pretending that everything is meant to be positive (even somewhere as quaint as an amusement park fan site) when there is stuff happening that requires more nuance to deal with.   Its an incredibly naive way to deal with people who are bringing up subjects within a topic that aren't always in the flow of what most members are veering towards.  Every topic can have that happen, even ones people think are supposed to be positive.  All of that is ruined if we aren't treating each other well.   Not everything is black and white, or in this case, positive and negative.  There's a grey area people aren't addressing.  Positivity can't be forced.  Criticism can be used in a positive way to improve something as well (just ask any musician including yours truly).  Its very short sighted to see a post you may not like and give a knee jerk reaction and start accusing people of things (admittedly, I tend to do that, too, but at least I'm acknowledging it and make that better).  Emotions are hard to convey over the internet which is why context is important.    

Also of note is the issue of gaslighting, and I'll use my recent spat as an example.  The original poster accused me of saying there wasn't any info on the ride name trademarks, even though he quoted me word for word where I said nothing of the sort, nor have I ever said or eluded to that kind of suggestion.   That's taking my words out of context and misrepresenting me of what I actually said.  That kind of talk is damaging to people.   It makes people second guess themselves into thinking that they didn't really say what they know they said, despite obvious evidence they did (which, on an internet forum, is easily fact-check-able).  Its just as bad, if not worse, as stating information and not citing a source, IMO, especially because you're hurting someone else in the process.  

I don't care if you think I'm overreacting. I don't care if you think I'm negative.  I'm also very aware of my flaws.  I'm just done just taking and seeing this kind of crap go on with no one acknowledging it.  I want this site to do as well as the next member, I've made a lot of good friends here and I still enjoy talking about Kings Island, amusement parks, and the like and its something to take my mind off of some more serious matters I have to deal with in everyday life which I have to think about all the time otherwise.  But I'm not going to stand for this mistreatment of members and the misuse and misinterpretations of being critical.    

[MaxxForce]

Thank you for sharing that @silver2005, and I'm sorry about you getting gaslighted. However, I would like to mention, and I hope you don't get mad at me for this, that I sort of felt like your post above is a little bit critical.

[malem]

Just to clarify, the intention with this thread isn't to discourage critical posts. The request is merely that criticism is respectful, without sarcasm or exaggeration.

Silver's point is that criticism should also be accurate. When another user replied to one of his posts, they got what he said about Cedar Fair trademarks wrong. This was likely inadvertent with all the conversations going on in the decoding thread, but it's a good reminder to always check your facts if you're going to be critical.

[Joshua]

11 hours ago, malem said:

Silver's point is that criticism should also be accurate. When another user replied to one of his posts, they got what he said about Cedar Fair trademarks wrong. This was likely inadvertent with all the conversations going on in the decoding thread, but it's a good reminder to always check your facts if you're going to be critical.

I agree with this sentiment, but I think the term "gaslighting" is getting thrown around a little too swiftly here. I am going to get a little personal here, but I feel like I have to in order to elaborate my point. 

I was gaslighted in a relationship for 4 years. I don't think she meant to do it, but this person broke me down, made me feel like the bad guy when they did something wrong (including cheating), controlled others' image of me, told me things like her friends hated me, made me feel powerless and in constant need of her approval. When I did something wrong, she badgered me about it to the point where her voice would be stuck in my head attacking me about it in a repetitive loop. People would ask why I didn't leave and it was because I didn't have the courage to. I felt like I needed her, that I depended on her, that I was nothing without her. When we would split, I would gradually start to become whole again, but she would come back, and the cycle would start again. 

It is literal mental abuse, something that can be gradual and when you come out of it, you no longer feel like a whole person, if you even know who you are anymore. It is terrible and frankly, I am not sure if I will ever be in another relationship because of that experience. 

As someone who doesn't know much about the amusement park industry (and actually liked the Paramount years, at least at first), I am often "corrected." But in those moments, I never feel anything near what I felt in that relationship. 

[Browntggrr]

Gaslighting is very serious, both in the action & the accusation.

I am not trying to be unempathetic for those who have been gaslighted but using "gaslighting" in the example given here takes away from the seriousness of the true action.  The literal action typically surrounds a very personal relationship.

[SonofBaconator]

A topic I'd like to bring to bring to people's attention. Should we be allowed to promote/share content such as articles, videos, etc if they are not entirely accurate?

[bjcolglazier]

12 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

A topic I'd like to bring to bring to people's attention. Should we be allowed to promote/share content such as articles, videos, etc if they are not entirely accurate?

Can you be more specific? I don't think this forum is subject to peer-review (prior to posting) perxactly. So...?

[TombRaiderFTW]

Not trying to defend anyone here: I understand why that would be important, but I do think that's a bit of a slippery slope.

What if neither the poster nor the content author are aware of the inaccuracy? Do they get the same punishment as someone who maliciously shares something inaccurate and pretends they didn't know better? How do you verify which of those is the truth?

And what defines "accurate?" People post speculation here that gets labeled a rumor elsewhere (e.g. Reddit) that gets reposted here as a legitimate rumor. Now we're basing someone's continued membership on the definition of "rumor" and "speculation" and on following a breadcrumb trail to figure out if they used the proper terms. And as much as I enjoy this place, I could totally see it going there.

I think that opens up a forum that already suffers from tone issues (see the original post) and flame wars (see, like, any thread with "decoding" in the title) to cutthroat nitpicking. I feel like the simpler route is to call out inaccuracies as one sees them, back oneself up with facts, and continue on one's way. The last thing KIC's users need is another justification to slap new users in the face for being wrong.

[silver2005]

I think to some degree its helpful that people post articles with inaccuracies as it educates them when they are picked apart why they're inaccurate.  It also can show which sources are more reliable than others. 

[bjcolglazier]

1 minute ago, silver2005 said:

I think to some degree its helpful that people post articles with inaccuracies as it educates them when they are picked apart why they're inaccurate.  It also can show which sources are more reliable than others. 

I also like it when people post a link that informs me. I feel relatively educated, and for sure opinionated, but I appreciate learning new things here, too. Should be a collaboration of ideas and information, and fun. All of that.

[King Ding Dong]

@SonofBaconator  How about we start with signatures that are not entirely accurate.  

[SonofBaconator]

18 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

@SonofBaconator  How about we start with signatures that are not entirely accurate.  

I can't remove it for some reason

[IndyGuy4KI]

13 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

A topic I'd like to bring to bring to people's attention. Should we be allowed to promote/share content such as articles, videos, etc if they are not entirely accurate?

There is no TOS rule against it. There is also not a TOS rule pointing out the inaccuracy of such article if done respectfully.  If the author of such article does not want to correct/adjust  their article when something is pointed out, that is on them. 

[gforce1994]

Earlier today a grossly defamatory post was made in a topic. I understand if people were trying to troll, but it crossed a line today. Would that fall under the TOS?

[SonofBaconator]

2 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

Earlier today a grossly defamatory post was made in a topic. I understand if people were trying to troll, but it crossed a line today. Would that fall under the TOS?

I must be missing something, what was said?

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

This topic turns a year old tomorrow.

[SonofBaconator]

Since nothing has been addressed about the arguments that have been made the past few hours over multiple threads concerning credibility, I'd like to formerly apologize. I'm obviously the minority who likes stuff fact checked and sourced properly so I can learn more about the industry and have something else to learn about during these crazy times. I'm sorry that I didn't take certain users on their word because they obviously know much more than I ever will. Again my apologies.

[Maddog]

@SonofBaconator I'm sorry you feel the need to apologize. I'm right there with you on fact checking things.  Wanted to chime in but was busy today.  

I always thought we were supposed to write our opinions, and only make definitive statements when we have facts to back them up (and can show it).

I have many opinions, sometimes I write some of them down--other times I'm smarter than that.  But when I make a huge assumption (or a series of them to a possible logical conclusion) I don't state them as fact or certainty.  Others appear to have a different writing style.

Personally I don't see how referring to your own site (coasternation) is a proper source, but that's my opinion 

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

We are addressing the issue, sometimes we are just a little busy as well. Some decisions we make as a team and takes time to get input from all the admins.

[SonofBaconator]

4 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

We are addressing the issue, sometimes we are just a little busy as well. Some decisions we make as a team and takes time to get input from all the admins.

I thank you @IndyGuy4KI. I'm sure other members are pleased with this as well

[CoastersRZ]

Yes, we have addressed the issue.  If there are continued issues, please feel free to PM me or any of the other moderators.

As Brad said, we try and be as responsive as we can.  I have two small kids, and can`t always hop on immediately to fix an issue.

Robbie

[silver2005]

I want to ask a quick question- does KIC have any sort of relationship whatsoever with Coaster Nation?

This is a question coming from the fact that the admins allow a known contributor of Coaster Nation to continue posting in a way to distribute information in a way that could be seen as peddling Coaster Nation. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

2 hours ago, silver2005 said:

I want to ask a quick question- does KIC have any sort of relationship whatsoever with Coaster Nation?

This is a question coming from the fact that the admins allow a known contributor of Coaster Nation to continue posting in a way to distribute information in a way that could be seen as peddling Coaster Nation. 

No, they are not associated with KIC in any way. We want to coexist and respect other coaster sites and are fine with information and articles being shared on KIC. 

We have asked this contributor to not share their articles to self promote on KIC like we do with anyone who starts to excessively self promote.

[gforce1994]

On 9/3/2020 at 8:35 PM, IndyGuy4KI said:

No, they are not associated with KIC in any way. We want to coexist and respect other coaster sites and are fine with information and articles being shared on KIC. 

Well, I would say there isn’t much respect being shown on this site. It’s a shame that people and sites are being called liars and frauds over accurate reporting.

[SonofBaconator]

It seems like multiple members have voiced their complaints about the same general issue. Many people have went out of their way to address what's annoying them. It seems like the majority of members are called wrong while the individuals who are causing the complaints are not.

We have members who contribute meaningful and accurate content to this site. Allowing other members to continuously talk about inaccurate information does@KIghostguy , @TombraiderTy, and other credible members a disservice.

Immunity must be nice.

[coaster sally]

With all do respect.  I got a warning for making a joke about Invertigo, yet a certain poster continues to refuse to provide sources and is irritating a great deal of members.

[KI FANATIC 37]

My traffic to this site has lowered (I know for a fact multiple other users have lowered their traffic to this site too) because of certain users on this site. Now I'm not saying this site needs me (I know it doesn't, I do not contribute that much), but I do know it is problematic if many users (especially good, quality users who contribute informative content) stop coming here daily. 

 

I hate to say it but this site has mirrored the tone of our country. Decisive. Hostile. A you vs me mentality. I know the moderators do not want that. I also know they are trying their best. Its a sad time and I do not know how to move forward and bring back the happy, good feel of the website. 

[Maddog]

For me this site has been a great portal into what has been going on at Kings Island this year.  I've not been able to attend this year at all, but reading/seeing what others have typed and posted pictures was great way to experience the park--even with all the difficulties of 2020 and how the park adapted!

I think some people forget that there are people out there (probably more than you think) that are in this same situation.  We don't visit the park every time it is open, in fact some of us only visit a couple of times a year on a good year!  So when conversations come up about possible projects/events/activities going on "inside" the park right now, throwing in a couple of pictures helps us immensely.  Having that reference allows those of us who couldn't see it in person the ability to interact in the conversation.  

However, posts that just state "xyz happened this weekend", or you should go check it out to "look for yourself" immediately shut down any interactive discussion.  If we ask for more information, like requests to describe more about what you've seen, colors/markings/distances, it all turns downhill rapidly.  It is natural for people to question new information, just be honest about how you got it.  When people ask about information and get responses like "I can't say" or "I'm not at liberty to share...", well why weren't you upfront about it in the first place?  Multiple sources of information, even if some must stay private, help others gauge claims and give some support to arguments.  

There is a lot of stuff the goes around in social media, and even the news these days that isn't really well sourced.  If you find out about news, please post where you read it or provide some back story--anything to give others some context.  We can then go read about it and add additional thoughts to the conversation.  We can't read the minds of other posters, but laying out your reasoning allows us to join in and provide other points of view.  

Also, we don't know each other's backstory/education/knowledge.  This forum has posters of various ages and education levels.  So when topics get into really complex details, feel free to share why you may have more information on these topics.    On the decoding topics over time one could eventually figure out who could interpret blueprints correctly, and who couldn't... but if you've got the skills, share them and educate others!

Maybe in short, don't tease, don't make others beg for information; instead be open, honest, and share what you have.  That's the whole point of a discussion forum!

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

The issues you guys are bringing up have been addressed today. Thanks for voicing your concerns.