Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[IndyGuy4KI]

1 minute ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I think the coaster itself would be fun, but I'd worry about capacity.  Also, no bright lighting package there.  I think a better spot would be at the front of the park where Invertigo is. Hangtime replaced a boomerang. 

I like it as an Invertigo replacement too.

[WoodVengeance]

25 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I think the coaster itself would be fun, but I'd worry about capacity.  Also, no bright lighting package there.  I think a better spot would be at the front of the park where Invertigo is. Hangtime replaced a boomerang. 

I believe that's a big part as to why we haven't seen many other Gerstlauers open up in the chain. Under Cedar Fair, the chain really emphasized wanting to prioritize capacity and reliability when it came to their big new additions. I feel the main reason Knotts even went with Gerstlauer was primarily due to the amount of land they had to work with. If Knotts had more space for Hangtime, it would've absolutely have been a B&M Dive Coaster instead.

Under the new Six Flags chain, it seems capacity isn't as much of a concern when you look at coasters like Siren's Curse and Alpenfury only operating with two trains at two of the biggest parks in the chain. That could make a Gerstlauer more probable for Kings Island, but it's still something I have to see to believe given the park seems to be heavily prioritizing family additions at the moment.

[Diamondback_Is_King]

1 hour ago, WoodVengeance said:

Under Cedar Fair, the chain really emphasized wanting to prioritize capacity and reliability when it came to their big new additions.

You wanna know what does have good capacity?

Please, please, please, KI! I would love a MACK Stryker Coaster similar to Voltron. This would be a worthy replacement of Vortex in my opinion, and would look great in that plot of land. It doesn't have to be as long or big as Voltron, but something with powerful launches, strong airtime, and crazy inversions would fill all of the gaps at KI. Another ride that fills in those gaps is Time Traveler. Would love to see something like that come in as well.

 

If you don't care about maintenance costs, (which they do because of Ka) then something like ArieForce One would be cool. I guess I could settle for a Raptor, but that's farther down on the list for me. Unfortunately, I don't see Six Flags going with RMC.

[WoodVengeance]

2 hours ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

You wanna know what does have good capacity?

Please, please, please, KI! I would love a MACK Stryker Coaster similar to Voltron. This would be a worthy replacement of Vortex in my opinion, and would look great in that plot of land. It doesn't have to be as long or big as Voltron, but something with powerful launches, strong airtime, and crazy inversions would fill all of the gaps at KI. Another ride that fills in those gaps is Time Traveler. Would love to see something like that come in as well.

 

If you don't care about maintenance costs, (which they do because of Ka) then something like ArieForce One would be cool. I guess I could settle for a Raptor, but that's farther down on the list for me. Unfortunately, I don't see Six Flags going with RMC.

Best you'll probably get is a Mack Stryker at Cedar Point I'm afraid.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

Maybe it will be the fourth coaster to be added to Cedar Point in four years (I kid, I kid — I hope they don't get another major coaster before Kings Island does)

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

Bumping this thread now that the 2025 season has officially started.

Whatever goes in Vortex's plot, I'd love to see it have chaser lights on the lift hill like Vortex had. Fury, Orion, and Raptor's solid chaser lights look good, but I think having those old-style lights would make it blend in more with the area. As much as I could enjoy a new launch coaster at Kings Island, I would prefer something with a lift hill and a compact (not out-and-back) layout to replace Vortex. 

If WindSeeker does go due to reliability issues, I could see the bathrooms right there being moved as well, probably to the open space between Jukebox Diner and the basketball stand next to Coney Treats. Transforming that bottleneck into only being a ride entrance / service entrance would also allow the coaster to go over WindSeeker's plot and turn around there. It would also open some space back up for the entrance into Action Theater.

I'm super curious as to how soon we'll see signs of next year's family thrill attraction. I just hope Vortex's replacement is as thrilling and as fun as it was.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

Where do you think a Vortex replacement's extended queue line would go? Vortex mainly used the winding staircases and the station level queue lines, but didn't seem to ever use the lower queue during Cedar Fair's tenure. I doubt the park would go with another station level queue line nor would they want the line extending out into the pathways.

I could see a tiered queue similar to Diamondback's with more levels. The hillside isn't too crazy, but it looks like it could be a little bit of a hassle to get a Diamondback-sized queue on it without moving the station further from the path. Maybe something more similar to Alpenfury's queue could be done.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

13 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

Where do you think a Vortex replacement's extended queue line would go? Vortex mainly used the winding staircases and the station level queue lines, but didn't seem to ever use the lower queue during Cedar Fair's tenure. I doubt the park would go with another station level queue line nor would they want the line extending out into the pathways.

I could see a tiered queue similar to Diamondback's with more levels. The hillside isn't too crazy, but it looks like it could be a little bit of a hassle to get a Diamondback-sized queue on it without moving the station further from the path. Maybe something more similar to Alpenfury's queue could be done.

My idea is a multi level station structure like Time Traveler where the queue is one and/or 2 levels below the station platform. Also if they go with a high capacity 3 train operation coaster, that could make it where they don't really need a long queue outside of busy weekends. Even on medium busy days, rides like Banshee and Orion are rarely longer than a few switchbacks. 

I also would like to see an under the station queue as 

A) it provides shade and

B: there's theming opportunity

I really wish more parks in the chain used the under the station area for queuing as usually when they don't it's dead space under there. 

[Diamondback_Is_King]

6 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I also would like to see an under the station queue as 

A) it provides shade and

B: there's theming opportunity

I really wish more parks in the chain used the under the station area for queuing as usually when they don't it's dead space under there. 

Now that I think of it, both Thunderbird and Voyage utilize queue use under the station. There's not really any theming under the station (maybe flickering lights on T-Bird) but it definitely saves space and adds more queue space.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Sounds like a survey went out today for future attractions and looks like a modern Vekoma launch was one of the options! Idk what the other options were if any as I haven't gotten the survey, but it sounds like the rumor season is about to start up again!

Link to facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1668Wswpiq/

[WoodVengeance]

4 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Sounds like a survey went out today for future attractions and looks like a modern Vekoma launch was one of the options! Idk what the other options were if any as I haven't gotten the survey, but it sounds like the rumor season is about to start up again!

Link to facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1668Wswpiq/

The other options shown were a story-driven attraction (Dino Off Road Adventure at Six Flags New England), Indoor-outdoor coaster (Arthur at Europa Park), and a new stunt show.

[beastfan11]

Pics via Reddit: 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

18 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

The other options shown were a story-driven attraction (Dino Off Road Adventure at Six Flags New England), Indoor-outdoor coaster (Arthur at Europa Park), and a new stunt show.

We already have enough "story driven" family attractions. I looked up Dino Off Road Adventure and it's basically an antique car ride with dinosaurs. Wonder if it would it be an overlay of KMAA or it would take over the leftover Dinosaurs Alive path behind Orion. 

I think the multi launch coaster will win (if they use this survey to decide what's next) as most passholders I've seen on socials are ready for a new thrill coaster as 2027 will be 7 years since the last one. 

A new stunt show would also be nice. Is it basically the same as the previous ones (trailblazers/off the rails) or something completely new? I'd honestly like to see the Ultimate Stunt Show that took over the royal fountain in 2017/18 come back in some form. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

3 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

 

Ok that would be pretty cool in Rivertown. I believe Over Texas does something like this and I believe Cedar Point did the year SteVe came out. 

Also sorry for double post

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Ok that would be pretty cool in Rivertown. I believe Over Texas does something like this and I believe Cedar Point did the year SteVe came out. 

Also sorry for double post

I was thinking something related to the Kings Island Universe as a stunt show.

[Diamondback_Is_King]

Let's go! I love the idea of a new gen Vekoma! So much potential with that type of model. Not sure if I like the concept layout, but it's just a concept. But another strong launch coaster would be great, even better if it has multiple!

Looks like they are still wondering if people want the indoor/outdoor attraction, as it makes it's way onto another survey. So is it possible they are still considering using the Crypt building for something other than the Conjuring?

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

It looks like Cedar Point and Illinois' Great America also got surveys today. Cedar Point's survey had a Suspended Thrill Glider coaster, a Multi-Launch Family coaster, a Family-Friendly coaster, a Nighttime Spectacular, and a Stunt Show Spectacular on it. Great America's allegedly had a Giga coaster, a Family Launch coaster, and a Flying Theater on it. Dorney Park got the fourth survey of the day with a Zamperla Disk-O, a Family Raft Ride, a Story-Driven coaster, an Antique Autos, and a Star Flyer on it. The consensus seems to be that at least the Star Flyer might come from Six Flags America. (It sounds like a few more parks got surveys as well, but I'm not typing all that.)

The launch coaster had my vote for the #1 best option. That particular layout looked like it might go better at the front of the park, but there isn't really any way of knowing since no stats are given and the concept art wasn't made for Kings Island. The footprint dimensions for the Ghostrider model from Vekoma fit pretty well into the Invertigo/Congo Falls/Timberwolf plot (with a chance for some movement if they go custom).

The story-driven attraction (Dino Off-Road variant) was the least exciting for me (#4). It would probably be another copy of the current version at Six Flags Over Texas with some added elements. I think using KMAA for it is an awful idea and would add to the theory that the chain is out of touch with their guests. They don't need to replace KMAA. My other thought was that this could be a Dynamic Motion Stage or a new film in Action Theater, but who knows.

The Suspended Indoor-Outdoor coaster was probably my #2, although I feel like the park could do more by retheming QCSC again and actually updating it.  I really like the idea of a new launched Invert though — even if it's a family coaster. Maybe then we could continue the joke that other parks keep getting the Volcano replacement.

The Stunt Show was #3 for me. I hope if they chose to do that one, they would do it right and not just make a new overlay of the current stunt show. Much love to the AllWheelSports crew and their talents, but it's getting old. This would be an opportunity to give it a dedicated venue as well either in Rivertown or as a smaller scale amphitheater replacing Timberwolf.

 

I did note which things could becoming from Six Flags America or California's Great America for all of the surveys when I first saw them. There's surprisingly a lot of new stuff on them with other options that could go to one park over another. Kings Dominion had a dark ride concept on theirs that used the Phantom Theater: Opening Nightmare promo art.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

3 hours ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

Looks like they are still wondering if people want the indoor/outdoor attraction, as it makes it's way onto another survey. So is it possible they are still considering using the Crypt building for something other than the Conjuring?

(double posting for this)

I think if they use that building for anything then they'd move The Conjuring. It could go elsewhere in the park, like in Action Theater (already did it at Carowinds), especially if they build new maze barns for future mazes.

[Orion742]

3 hours ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

Let's go! I love the idea of a new gen Vekoma! So much potential with that type of model. Not sure if I like the concept layout, but it's just a concept. But another strong launch coaster would be great, even better if it has multiple!

Looks like they are still wondering if people want the indoor/outdoor attraction, as it makes it's way onto another survey. So is it possible they are still considering using the Crypt building for something other than the Conjuring?

It’s a cloned model off of Vekoma’s website. The ride shown in the survey is also not a multi launch. Our’s would likely be custom. If it’s a Vekoma multi launch I’m all for it! I’ve got my eyes on 2028.

Vekoma ghostrider used in the survey

 https://www.vekoma.com/sitdown-thrill-coasters/ghostrider

 

[WoodVengeance]

Carowinds just released a survey that also had a launch coaster on it, but theirs used an image of AlpenFury instead. Kings Island was the only survey that featured the Vekoma Ghostrider.

Edit: Magic Mountain's survey released with a Vekoma Ghostrider also

[Diamondback_Is_King]

6 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

Carowinds just released a survey that also had a launch coaster on it, but theirs used an image of AlpenFury instead. Kings Island was the only survey that featured the Vekoma Ghostrider.

Based on what I've heard about AlpenFury, I wouldn't mind a Premier multi-launch either.

[BeeastFarmer]

9 hours ago, Orion742 said:

It’s a cloned model off of Vekoma’s website. The ride shown in the survey is also not a multi launch. Our’s would likely be custom. If it’s a Vekoma multi launch I’m all for it! I’ve got my eyes on 2028.

Vekoma ghostrider used in the survey

 https://www.vekoma.com/sitdown-thrill-coasters/ghostrider

 

If this is what we end up with, I hope it's fully customized for KI. Two trains with 16 riders each....yikes.   When you account for Fast Lane (the free one time use with the cheaper prestige pass) on this stat alone would kill capacity.

I am loving the new Vekoma, but they need to have higher capacity models.

[DonHelbig]

The survey is doing what they wanted it to do: create a diversion to get people talking about something else besides maze up-charges, rides closed (see KD), parks that could be sold, etc.

[DispatchMaster]

1 hour ago, DonHelbig said:

The survey is doing what they wanted it to do: create a diversion to get people talking about something else besides maze up-charges, rides closed (see KD), parks that could be sold, etc.

They've been sending out these surveys every ~year for several years now, right? If so, what's unique about this year's survey that makes you think it's a distraction?

[jcoop22]

1 hour ago, DonHelbig said:

The survey is doing what they wanted it to do: create a diversion to get people talking about something else besides maze up-charges, rides closed (see KD), parks that could be sold, etc.

What is % increase chance of selling off multiple parks in the next 3 years if Marilyn Spiegel takes over?

[DonHelbig]

12 minutes ago, jcoop22 said:

What is % increase chance of selling off multiple parks in the next 3 years if Marilyn Spiegel takes over?

Selling off parks is on the table no matter who the next CEO is. 

[WoodVengeance]

2 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

The survey is doing what they wanted it to do: create a diversion to get people talking about something else besides maze up-charges, rides closed (see KD), parks that could be sold, etc.

Don't forget no ice!

[SonofBaconator]

I have this theory that the park is gauging whether fans are leaning more toward family attractions or if there’s still a strong demand for a major thrill ride like the thrill coaster.

Looking at the options, three out of the four are clearly family-focused: a storytelling inverted coaster like Arthur, a Jeep-style adventure ride through themed scenes, and a live-action Wild West stunt show. The only true thrill option is the large red roller coaster. That alone tells me the park is testing whether guests are ready for another high-intensity coaster or if they’d rather see something more accessible to families.

If the results end up evenly split - say, each concept getting around 25% - then it’s highly unlikely the park will move forward with the big thrill coaster. Even if the thrill coaster gets around 50% and the remaining options share the other half, that still shows half the audience prefers family attractions, which would likely push Kings Island toward something tamer.

To make a new thrill coaster happen, the response would probably need to be at least 60% in favor of the red coaster - enough to send a clear signal that the majority of fans truly want a major thrill ride over anything else. Otherwise, this survey is probably Kings Island’s final check to confirm whether it’s time to shift their focus fully toward the family market.

My two cents.

[CedarPointer]

5 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

If this is what we end up with, I hope it's fully customized for KI. Two trains with 16 riders each....yikes.   When you account for Fast Lane (the free one time use with the cheaper prestige pass) on this stat alone would kill capacity.

I am loving the new Vekoma, but they need to have higher capacity models.

I mean, they did just build a coaster at one of their busiest parks that only has 2 trains of 12 riders each. Low capacity and long wait times are great for Fast Lane sales. Not so great for your brand reputation or repeat business, but that's a problem for tomorrow. 

[SonofBaconator]

2 hours ago, CedarPointer said:

I mean, they did just build a coaster at one of their busiest parks that only has 2 trains of 12 riders each.

“Built” as in it was erected- the coaster itself was built for an other park but was later relocated to Sandusky-it was never custom built for CP.  If it was custom built, CP would have had three trains.