Orion Reviews

[HandsUp]

Sounds like I really need to ride at night and/or in the back. Not had that pleasure yet. In terms of the Millie comparison, I still have to give Millie the nod for a few reasons. The sprawling cloverleaf layout makes all those long fast turns cover so much real estate and really get you turned around so that it's hard to keep track of what's next. Just this year (1st rode in 2002) was I finally able to remember the order of each element. A big reason why I've always loved The Beast. It is also smooth as glass after all these years-I don't think I'd feel comfortable hopping right back on Orion after getting off. Could ride MF all day. Also, despite having a lower ride height that allows my 7 year old daughter to ride (her new fave), the 2-seater trains with that little lap bar give such an exposed feeling and connection to the track. JMO of course.

 

[super8]

i recently rode orion and really enjoyed this attraction. it's smooth, fast, and has a stunning color scheme on the eyes. i really only had one major complaint about it, the pre-show.

first off who wants to watch a pre show on some small tv before riding a giga coaster? you see this huge ride and are about to get on and then it's like jk you have to go into this hot little box and watch a tv? who thought that was a good idea? it absolutely kills the pacing, and no one was even remotely watching it. it's also way too clean cut and happy, it also does a terrible job at explaining the story of the ride. are we going on a simulator? are we about to ride a roller coaster? are we recruits? why are we here? there's some massive plot holes, they should've built off the FOF lore. 

anyways, ride is sweet, pre show sucks. anyone else feel the same way?

[DoomPlague]

1 hour ago, super8 said:

i recently rode orion and really enjoyed this attraction. it's smooth, fast, and has a stunning color scheme on the eyes. i really only had one major complaint about it, the pre-show.

first off who wants to watch a pre show on some small tv before riding a giga coaster? you see this huge ride and are about to get on and then it's like jk you have to go into this hot little box and watch a tv? who thought that was a good idea? it absolutely kills the pacing, and no one was even remotely watching it. it's also way too clean cut and happy, it also does a terrible job at explaining the story of the ride. are we going on a simulator? are we about to ride a roller coaster? are we recruits? why are we here? there's some massive plot holes, they should've built off the FOF lore. 

anyways, ride is sweet, pre show sucks. anyone else feel the same way?

I've never seen the whole thing and don't need to. It's just people talking and the line usually moves too fast to let you see it. I do like the theming inside the building, especially the references to old rides. Building off the FOF lore would have been cool. They did bring back a character from that for the official audio that's played in Area 72 which is great.

[LuvingKI]

I seriously can't see why people would like MF more then Orion? Yeah it's a little bit longer, but alot is just low to the ground with no elements.  A little taller? I can't tell... And the seats and lap bar aren't in the same league as Orion

[Captain Nemo]

2 minutes ago, LuvingKI said:

I seriously can't see why people would like MF more then Orion? Yeah it's a little bit longer, but alot is just low to the ground with no elements.  A little taller? I can't tell... And the seats and lap bar aren't in the same league as Orion

Because opinions differ. I'm in the boat that found Orion to be a one and done experience. Yeah it's fun, not gonna say it isn't. It just didn't tick the marks I expect out of a 'giga'.

Who chose that layout and why?

[LuvingKI]

1 minute ago, Captain Nemo said:

Because opinions differ. I'm in the boat that found Orion to be a one and done experience. Yeah it's fun, not gonna say it isn't. It just didn't tick the marks I expect out of a 'giga'.

Who chose that layout and why?

I know opinions differ, it seems to be far more prefer MF, but MF layout to me is no better then Orions

[disco2000]

MF favors speed over the hills and floater air we have on Orion AND Diamondback and I think that is why it is a fan favorite.

Orion as a speed demon without all the high hills would have been a better option to separate itself from Diamondback and not be referred to as DB2.0 lol

[LuvingKI]

41 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

MF favors speed over the hills and floater air we have on Orion AND Diamondback and I think that is why it is a fan favorite.

Orion as a speed demon without all the high hills would have been a better option to separate itself from Diamondback and not be referred to as DB2.0 lol

Fair enough, I like DB2. Give me DB3

[Buckeye Brad]

KI is my home park, and I am super thankful that we have Orion. The first drop is spectacular, the theme is fun, and overall is a fine addition.

 That said, here are things that I prefer on Millennium Force:

1. The narrow and minimal train design feels scarier and faster. Every seat has basically “air” to the left or to the right. This is especially awesome ascending the lift hill, sitting left. Nothing but a lake 300’ down next to your lap.

2. Tunnels. They increase the speed perception.

3. The queue flybys at the end increase the excitement for those waiting in line

4. Directional changes. Granted, they are not exactly rapid fire, but they are more in number and intensity than Orion

5. The sprawling layout makes me feel like I’ve travelled further. The views change more dramatically. Even the smells change (Asian food to petting zoo in seconds).

6. Station vibe. Cant put my finger on it, but the arrival of empty trains, the retro future music, and the fast dispatch as the lift cable yanks the train increase the excitement for me.

Still very happy to have both giga coasters in my home state!

 

 

[MDMC01]

I agree with #6, and I'll go further by saying I love Millennium Force's Y2K theming. I know I've posted it here before, but check out this teaser video from back in the day:

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I think Orion and Millennium Force are both great rides, but in different ways. Both have the speed, but Orion gives more of the forces associated with that speed while Millennium Force glides through the extended course at a blistering (and mostly forceless) pace. And that's ok that both provide different experiences.

 

[TheRickster]

I'd have to agree with Brad too. I really really really want to love Orion but I just like it and honestly I think I might even like Diamondback better. The intensity is great, I love the design but it just feels so short. I just feel like it's 30 seconds short. I'm not sure how they measure them or if it's the lift hill/brake run timing on rcdb but Orion really would need 2-4 more elements to really be better than MF for me. 

I'm happy we have it, don't get me wrong it just falls short and with the line it can get for being the tallest in the park, that hampers my enjoyment of it even more.

[SonofBaconator]

I don’t think there’s a person out there who doesn’t think it could be better if it was closer to 6,000ft. With the cost of steel going up, I’m sure it would’ve cost a whole lot more to even squeeze in one or two more elements before the final break run. I’m happy with what we got but I always wish the ride duration was a tad longer.

[Orion742]

I love Orion. It’s like a mini Fury. I think if it had a few more low to the ground elements then it would be better but it’s still an amazing coaster. 
 

Also don’t know if it is just me but I hear a lot that Orion, D-back, and Banshee have rattles compared to other B&M’s. Personally, Orion and Diamondback are glass smooth to me. I have had 1 ride on Banshee where it was very shaky. I came off with a headache. I went to ride it again soon after and it was glass smooth. I rode green train when it felt shaky then I rode Purple train second time around. I have ridden Candymonuim, Fury, just to name a few other B&M’s. I have not noticed anything different than our B&M’s. 

[Skibum]

While I enjoy Orion, Millennium Force feels faster and more complete.  The elevator lift hill is fast and sets the tone.  The first drop felt steeper and the pullout had great g-forces.  The tunnels keep the impression of speed going and then the big hill before the cloverleafs.  Now, I always felt that another hill or two or tighter low clearance turns would have helped but MF keeps that momentum going all the way to the last elevated turn and into the brakes.  Orion feels like it never quite capitalizes on its speed and the ending occurs too soon.  Plus, Intamin does a better job at using g-forces than the new B&M coasters.  Banshee is probably one of the best throwback coasters in B&M's current lineup.

With all that said, I still enjoy riding Orion but can also say that I actually prefer Diamondback's overall ride experience.

[Tr0y]

14 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Stopped on the way home from a meeting in Columbus last night for a quick bite and 1-2 rides. Thought I’d try SolSpin since there were  like 6 people in the park LOL. Even with no crowd they still managed to make load last over 20 minutes for one cycle before me that started right as I got in line?! 
They need to just fill from one set point all the way around the circle instead of opening the gates and letting people wander around (makes no difference since no one is sitting next to anyone)Even if there was a “load from this point around the circle” marking on the floor. They they could easily count to 24 and cut off the line. Last night the guy kept closing the gate, waiting till people got seated, scanning and counting the empty seats, opening the gate for a few more, scanning again… etc. It only seats what it seats-individually. There’s no “maybe those two will sit together” like on other flats. Even if there were 24 marked spots in the final stretch of the queue to stand on and people could “fill in the singles” on their own. Then the whole “bin for your belongings” needs to go. It slows it down even further or moved to the entrance plaza area. They know it’s terrible capacity (Koontz even acknowledged that) so they really need to improve line management and load process better. 

He also mentioned budget and trying to stay within it. That seems to be the trend. We got a poor man’s giga coaster in 2020 with Orion, and now we have a poor man’s Zamperla Endeavor for this season. Wonderful.

[super7]

1 hour ago, Tr0y said:

He also mentioned budget and trying to stay within it. That seems to be the trend. We got a poor man’s giga coaster in 2020 with Orion, and now we have a poor man’s Zamperla Endeavor for this season. Wonderful.

The Endeavour is definitely the poor man’s enterprise and KI got the cheapest version. At least it looks good spinning at full height from a distance through the (few) trees. 
 

I’m happy to see budget spent on well thought out theming.  But the trade off was rather junky Zamperla rides.    Zamperla needs to stick to kiddie rides IMO  

They couldn’t find enough in the budget to build shade structures.   I think KI loves ti torture guests in the blazing sun.  Many of the queues and most of the midways are bare. 
 

 

 

[BeeastFarmer]

1 hour ago, Tr0y said:

He also mentioned budget and trying to stay within it. That seems to be the trend. We got a poor man’s giga coaster in 2020 with Orion, and now we have a poor man’s Zamperla Endeavor for this season. Wonderful.

Poor man's GiGa?  35 million ain't poor to me. 

[Tr0y]

28 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Poor man's GiGa?  35 million ain't poor to me. 

Orion built in 2020, cost 30 million to build. Now let’s compare it to the other giga coasters built and adjust their price tags to what they would’ve cost to build in 2020 based off inflation:

Millenium Force built in 2000, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $37.5 million to build in 2020.

Steel Dragon 2000 built in 2020, cost $52 million to build. It’s expensive price tag is because it was built to withstand earthquakes. Would cost $78 million to build in 2020.

Intimidator 305 built in 2010, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $29.75 million to build in 2020.

Leviathan built in 2012, cost $28 million to build. Would cost $31.64 million to build in 2020.

Fury 325 built in 2015, cost $30 million to build. Would cost $32.7 million to build in 2020.

[DispatchMaster]

7 hours ago, Tr0y said:

Orion built in 2020, cost 30 million to build. Now let’s compare it to the other giga coasters built and adjust their price tags to what they would’ve cost to build in 2020 based off inflation:

Millenium Force built in 2000, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $37.5 million to build in 2020.

Steel Dragon 2000 built in 2020, cost $52 million to build. It’s expensive price tag is because it was built to withstand earthquakes. Would cost $78 million to build in 2020.

Intimidator 305 built in 2010, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $29.75 million to build in 2020.

Leviathan built in 2012, cost $28 million to build. Would cost $31.64 million to build in 2020.

Fury 325 built in 2015, cost $30 million to build. Would cost $32.7 million to build in 2020.

So, in other words, Orion is right in line with every giga built by Cedar Fair with the exception of MF.

Orion is a good, high-capacity, reliable B&M roller coaster, and you consider it a "poor man's" investment? My goodness. I have second hand embarrassment at the spoiled entitlement.

[Tr0y]

17 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

So, in other words, Orion is right in line with every giga built by Cedar Fair with the exception of MF.

Orion is a good, high-capacity, reliable B&M roller coaster, and you consider it a "poor man's" investment? My goodness. I have second hand embarrassment at the spoiled entitlement.

Yeah I think we should be entitled to a 33 million dollar coaster like Fury 325 since our KI gold passes cost more than what they cost at Carowinds. 3 million doesn’t seem like much of a difference till you ride Fury 325, then it becomes clear.

[DispatchMaster]

Yes, I get that you feel you're entitled. That's the problem.

[SonofBaconator]

19 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

Yeah I think we should be entitled to a 33 million dollar coaster like Fury 325 since our KI gold passes cost more than what they cost at Carowinds. 3 million doesn’t seem like much of a difference till you ride Fury 325, then it becomes clear.

Not trying to be “that person” but it’s been three years since Orion came out and eight years since Fury 325 came out. The constant complaints about how much money is spent on what attractions are getting old.

[FUN&ONLY!]

The 3 million dollar disparity between Fury 325 and Orion ultimately should not make THAT big of a difference with the the length and layout. However, with the design of the layouts, it appears that the designers intended for Fury 325 to focus on low to the ground maneuvers and Orion to focus on more massive elements. Much of Fury’s track length is spent relatively low to the ground, which requires a lot less steel than huge elements because less support columns need manufactured, which allows for a higher track length within the budget. Orion only has a couple low to the ground elements.

To an extent, I understand why Orion focuses on massive elements. Without massive elements in the very back of the park, it would not be as visible to guests or onlookers, so it would not be as impressive of a “advertisement” for guests already in the park or for those driving past of the park.

Also, I think it is very important to point out that Mike Koontz mentioned in Kings Island: A Ride Through Time that Kings Island could have made Orion more like Fury 325 and more intense, but it was his desire to make it more family-friendly than Fury 325. Personally, while i do like Orion, I scratch my head at this explanation because a 300 foot drop already scares away a lot of the family. The same guests that ride Orion would ride Fury 325 if it were at the park instead of Orion. Also, while Fury 325 may be a little more intense than Orion, it is no Intimidator 305, and it is still very much a crowd pleaser. Even with a slightly smaller budget, Orion could have been on a similar level to Fury 325 or even better than it depending on the elements selected and intensity.

[Old_Bearcat]

8 hours ago, Tr0y said:

Orion built in 2020, cost 30 million to build. Now let’s compare it to the other giga coasters built and adjust their price tags to what they would’ve cost to build in 2020 based off inflation:

Millenium Force built in 2000, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $37.5 million to build in 2020.

Steel Dragon 2000 built in 2020, cost $52 million to build. It’s expensive price tag is because it was built to withstand earthquakes. Would cost $78 million to build in 2020.

Intimidator 305 built in 2010, cost $25 million to build. Would cost $29.75 million to build in 2020.

Leviathan built in 2012, cost $28 million to build. Would cost $31.64 million to build in 2020.

Fury 325 built in 2015, cost $30 million to build. Would cost $32.7 million to build in 2020.

You can't use the CPI inflation index to compute inflation in construction.  Long-term construction cost inflation is normally about double consumer price index (CPI).

[DispatchMaster]

It's also worth noting that between June 2014 and June 2019 (around when Fury 325 and Orion, respectively, were being fabricated), steel prices increased by more than 30%, which is not trivial.

Parks have budgets, and like it or not those budgets drive cap ex decisions. Would anyone honestly prefer they not build Orion at all because they couldn't fit a Fury 325 clone/equivalent into the budget? 

[Tr0y]

9 hours ago, Old_Bearcat said:

You can't use the CPI inflation index to compute inflation in construction.  Long-term construction cost inflation is normally about double consumer price index (CPI).

So what you’re saying is we really got shorted. All my argument is, is that based of inflation they should’ve spent more. 

 

8 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

It's also worth noting that between June 2014 and June 2019 (around when Fury 325 and Orion, respectively, were being fabricated), steel prices increased by more than 30%, which is not trivial.

Parks have budgets, and like it or not those budgets drive cap ex decisions. Would anyone honestly prefer they not build Orion at all because they couldn't fit a Fury 325 clone/equivalent into the budget? 

The inflation rate that I used is pretty spot on. For example Intimidator 305 being the closet resemblance to Orion in terms of ride length and being more heavily themed cost $25 million to build in 2010. It would have cost 29.75 million to build in 2020. and yeah I would’ve been perfectly content with waiting an  additional season or two for a better giga coaster. The park literally built a gangster of a coaster in Mystic Timbers, 3 years prior. Oh not to mention but a gold pass to Kings Dominion is cheaper than Carowinds, and Carowinds is cheaper than Kings Island.

[disco2000]

I think for the money or cheaper, we could have had a giga that favors speed over the hills and floater air we have on Orion AND Diamondback.

Orion as a speed demon without all the high hills would have been a better option to separate itself from Diamondback and not be referred to as DB2.0 as many guests call it lol

As a result of two coasters providing the same floater air, many compare Diamondback and Orion as roughly the same experience.

At Carowinds, you don't hear many say that Fury is the same experience as their hyper Intimidator 2.0 lol.

[rlentless]

I know this is an unpopular opinion.  While KI has a world class line of roller coasters and Orion fits that category.  We were just not going to get something the exceeded MF.  Sorry, it is just how I see it . . right or wrong.

[DispatchMaster]

8 hours ago, Tr0y said:

...I would’ve been perfectly content with waiting an  additional season or two for a better giga coaster. The park literally built a gangster of a coaster in Mystic Timbers, 3 years prior. Oh not to mention but a gold pass to Kings Dominion is cheaper than Carowinds, and Carowinds is cheaper than Kings Island.

First, it's still true that $30 million today buys less steel than it did in 2014, and there's no indication that's changing anytime soon. So should they wait twenty years? Fifty?

Second, these parks have access to data that you don't. And it's apparent their ridership data supported that Orion would please the vast majority of guests at a reasonable cost per rider, even if a insignificant number of insufferable enthusiasts complain about its similarity to DB.

7 hours ago, disco2000 said:

...not be referred to as DB2.0 as many guests call it lol

...many compare Diamondback and Orion as roughly the same experience.

What percentage of KI's annual attendees do you think complain about the similarity? The overwhelming majority of guests don't think the way enthusiasts do, and thank goodness for that.

 

7 hours ago, rlentless said:

We were just not going to get something the exceeded MF.

"Exceeded" by what metric? Cost? Definitely not, because CF has thankfully learned that it's fiscally irresponsible to spend that kind of money on a roller coaster.

But I can guarantee that if KI could make a clear, compelling business case for a taller, faster, longer, or whatever-er coaster CF would absolutely greenlight it. Fury 325 is proof of that.

[disco2000]

49 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

 

What percentage of KI's annual attendees do you think complain about the similarity? The overwhelming majority of guests don't think the way enthusiasts do, and thank goodness for that.

Diamondback consistently is rated higher than Orion in many coaster rankings that are not enthusiast driven.  

Almost everyone I talk to, whether they are an enthusiast or not, like Diamondback better than Orion.

Diamondback line is typically longer than Orion, although some of that can be attributed to the bins versus no bins.

Fact of the matter is we got Orion as CF essentially paid for a design that couldn't be built at the intended park, so they did the minimum they could to make it a "giga" and could put in another park as it was a hyper intended for CGA.  KI just happened to be the logical place for such a coaster.

Had that original design been able to be constructed at CGA, perhaps our giga that would have came a few years later would have been more what people were expecting...