What Will Change or Be New For 2023?

[DeltaFlyer]

I’ve had a season pass every year for the last 10+ years. The last 4 years have been platinum passes, with the last two having all season/all park Fast Lane, the dining plan, and the drink plan. It goes without saying I’ve spent thousands over the past several years.

I travel for work often, and when I find myself near another park I like to visit for a few hours. I  was originally excited about Prestige+, as I could save myself from buying the all season Fast Lane if I could get one skip-the-line at each park. Now it appears that is not the case. If the benefits at your home park are being reduced, it stands to reason they’d do the same at other parks. If so, why would you limit prestige benefits to your home park? The number of guests (outside the KI/CP corridor) that would both visit another park and use the prestige benefits must be small.

The 50th celebration was magical. It was truly next-level for a regional park to put on a show of that caliber. Next year, we have the return of Carnivale. As fun as it is, it’s not new.

I understand that a park cannot get something big and new every year, but there has to be something that drives you to renew your pass. This year, for the first time since I’ve been a pass holder, there isn’t anything driving me to renew my pass. I am certain I am not the only person to feel that way.

[FUN&ONLY!]

As it stands, 2023 seems like it will be a worse season at Kings Island than 2022. Unless anything else gets announced, 2023 will only see the return of Grand Carnivale but the loss of the 50th Anniversary Celebration. I think Grand Carnivale is great, but I don’t think it matches the 50th Anniversary Celebration (I think most people would agree) and is also not new. I hope Kings Island announces SOMETHING new for next year, though, at some point.

[Benjamin22]

5 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

As it stands, 2023 seems like it will be a worse season at Kings Island than 2022. Unless anything else gets announced, 2023 will only see the return of Grand Carnivale but the loss of the 50th Anniversary Celebration. I think Grand Carnivale is great, but I don’t think it matches the 50th Anniversary Celebration (I think most people would agree) and is also not new. I hope Kings Island announces SOMETHING new for next year, though, at some point.

Yup, there's literally nothing to look forward too for next season. It'll feel exactly the same as 2021 unless they announce something new. Well I guess there will be one major difference between those seasons, that being the price.  Still no excuse for a park that makes as much money as KI does to not add any new attractions for 3 seasons.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 minute ago, Benjamin22 said:

Yup, there's literally nothing to look forward too for next season. It'll feel exactly the same as 2021 unless they announce something new. Well I guess there will be one major difference between those seasons, that being the price.  Still no excuse for a park that makes as much money as KI does to not add any new attractions for 3 seasons.

I think there is a good excuse as none of the parks adding something next year were set to open a 30 million dollar giga in 2020. My prediction is we'll get some type of new spring event like Frontier Festival or State Line Celebration. I also think we may get the Monster Jam Thunder Alley event as I believe we are one of the few CF parks that hasn't had that event yet. I also think we'll see some sort of new food offerings. Whether that means a new restaurant all together or just some new dishes remains to be seen. I also am hoping we see a good lineup at Timberwolf if they decide to do concerts again next year. 

[robintodd]

18 hours ago, DeltaFlyer said:

I understand that a park cannot get something big and new every year, but there has to be something that drives you to renew your pass. This year, for the first time since I’ve been a pass holder, there isn’t anything driving me to renew my pass. I am certain I am not the only person to feel that way.

I understand what you're getting at and I'm sure you're not the only person but I do strongly feel that you are in the minority. 

There are 7.7 billion people on the planet, 329.5 million in the US, 11.6 million in Ohio and 2.2 million in the greater Cincinnati area (29th most populous metropolitan area in the US and 1st in Ohio.  I remind myself every visit to KI how fortunate I am to not only live 20 minutes away from an amusement park but 6 hours away from 5 of them (KI, CP, KK, HW and Kennywood).  Let alone a park the quality of KI.  It's not something I take for granted no matter what the cost.

Through covid, the last 2 years have seen season pass sales stay steady or increase.  This was after people saying the were "done with CF because they didn't offer refunds in 2020".  If you want to spend your money elsewhere, go right ahead and visit Fritz at the zoo all summer next year.  I'll be riding The Beast and supporting a park that gave me a free renewal year during covid and a summer to remember this year with the 50th anniversary, oh and the food, don't forget the food :).  Still the best deal for the money all things considered.  I remember people complaining when they were selling gold passes for $99 and that it was too cheap and they were just trying to get people into the park.  Well looking at the past financial releases it seems to work in their favor as spending per person is up.

We read all the time people saying "this is the last straw" and making mild threats about what a multi-million dollar park with nearly 2 million attendance each year should and shouldn't do (remember last year on 5/22 when they hit capacity?  That was after covid!).  

As a longtime season pass holder (ever since they started offering them in the 80's) I still maintain that over the years I am still thousands of dollars ahead on the bargain.  If they lose 10% of the season pass holders it would only mean shorter lines and a less crowded park for those of us that continue to support this gem of the midwest. 

[robintodd]

1 minute ago, disco2000 said:

^Exactly.  Being a regional/local park in close proximity to so many that has a very strong season passholder base, people will renew even if nothing is added because the value is too great, especially now with the meal and drink plans.  Where else can you be fed all summer (and weekends in fall and winter) for $100?  People spend more than that in a mini-quick trip to the grocery every week. 

Simply put, the cost/hour of entertainment value is a fraction of almost any other entertainment venue. 

Of course if enough time went by with no new additions and the park started to look run-down and not being kept up, then yeah they will start to see a decline in pass renewals.

Interesting way to look at comparing it to any other entertainment value (been to a 2 hour movie lately with refreshments ).

Agreed on the last point but with the shows and the little things like the new beavers on the train and the "train village" as well as the water wheel at run for your life I hardly see the park becoming run down anytime soon.  

[IndyGuy4KI]

Pulled this discussion into its own thread.

[disco2000]

13 minutes ago, robintodd said:

Interesting way to look at comparing it to any other entertainment value (been to a 2 hour movie lately with refreshments ).

Agreed on the last point but with the shows and the little things like the new beavers on the train and the "train village" as well as the water wheel at run for your life I hardly see the park becoming run down anytime soon.  

 

Exactly.  It is evident walking in that they are maintaining the park. 

Now some here say that is a given and KI shouldn't be given credit for it.  I disagree.  Sprucing the place up, painting buildings and coasters, adding/fixing broken stuff, etc. is a sign that they are putting money in the park.  Again, if they go too many years without a major improvement, then yes they will start to see more people not renew, but I do not see KI going many years without a true capital improvement.

You mention shows, and yet look at people griping about Grand Carnivale coming back (and that is not cheap to put on)...

Sometimes you can't please everyone...

[robintodd]

28 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

 

Exactly.  It is evident walking in that they are maintaining the park. 

Now some here say that is a given and KI shouldn't be given credit for it.  I disagree.  Sprucing the place up, painting buildings and coasters, adding/fixing broken stuff, etc. is a sign that they are putting money in the park.  Again, if they go too many years without a major improvement, then yes they will start to see more people not renew, but I do not see KI going many years without a true capital improvement.

You mention shows, and yet look at people griping about Grand Carnivale coming back (and that is not cheap to put on)...

Sometimes you can't please everyone...

Me and my grandkids love Carnivale (and the food, don't forget the food  LOL).  I have an acre and a half and it takes alot to keep the flower beds weeded, grass cut, bushes trimmed, planting tulips for the next season, etc.  It takes a large effort to just keep up the landscaping not to mention painting, plumbing (those toilets don't fix themselves) in a park the size of KI.  They do a great job and so do the employees.  I always make sure to tell them they are doing a great job and always feel for them when someone is yelling at them for something that is beyond their control.  

Methinks some people just feel entitled or like they are owed something.  They take for granted the little things that add up to a great guest experience.

Be thankful for what you have today, for tomorrow is not guaranteed for any of us.

Keep up the good work KI!

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Another thing about Carnivale is I hope it is more like 2019 than 2021. I remember 2019 they had the little stages set up in the different countries with live entertainment. They also would bring in some up and coming bands on the weekends to play on the bandstand. 2021 was a little bit scaled down from 2019 imo. 

[Coasterteam]

Keep in mind just because the park doesn’t announce it doesn’t mean nothing is going to change. Every park gets an offseason budget to spice things up.

Will we see more Beast work? Are they gonna paint DB? Will they do track work on Diamondback by the trim? Will the parking lot get more repaving?

CF loves KI, it in my opinion is better than Cedar Point, it’s gonna get a Vortex replacement just give it time; stuff takes a while to plan. At this point you can know they likely are planning as it’s usually done 2 years in advance. 

[robintodd]

27 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Another thing about Carnivale is I hope it is more like 2019 than 2021. I remember 2019 they had the little stages set up in the different countries with live entertainment. They also would bring in some up and coming bands on the weekends to play on the bandstand. 2021 was a little bit scaled down from 2019 imo. 

My understanding was the little stages were not there in 2021 because of COVID.

[disco2000]

I totally agree with you, but some think that Beast work, Dback painting, parking lot, etc. are maintenance things that aren't a reason to get a pass...

[robintodd]

3 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

I totally agree with you, but some think that Beast work, Dback painting, parking lot, etc. are maintenance things that aren't a reason to get a pass...

Beast work definitely brought back life to that coaster (and Racer as well).  It's had a line all year and that keeps other lines down as well  Notice no one is talking about a new show and house for Haunt.  Those are new things they get this year when they renew for next.  They will actually have more houses this year than last.   

Maybe they don't count anything to do with Haunt and Winterfest as a value add (Don't worry Snowball and Gator, most of us still love you and the other employees that work Haunt and Winterfest!!  )

[Kenban]

From what I understand, the 2023 announcements for the chain were largely intended to be the 2022 changes.  The pavilion at Cedar Point, the hotel renovations, etc.  Basically projects got pushed back a year.  Kings Island was likely not going to get anything this year beyond the 50th anniversary, so our lack of projects gets pushed a year and suddenly the park has nothing really planned and no anniversary.

With the pushed projects and both Worlds of Fun and Carowinds having 50th anniversary celebrations next year, the budget is likely gone.

Kings Island will do something, building renovations, paint, something.  But likely nothing worth announcing in advance.

[Coasterteam]

I still have speculation that the park might continue working on Beast with the goal of finishing the helix structure rebuild. 

Won’t find out until we enter the off-season, but the hopes are there. If not we’ll deal with waiting another year. I trust they have some good stuff in store for us. 

[medford]

I have a feeling that the 2023 improvement/change that will be discussed most is what will be happening on a certain plot of land behind a fence.

[disco2000]

4 minutes ago, medford said:

I have a feeling that the 2023 improvement/change that will be discussed most is what will be happening on a certain plot of land behind a fence.

Cutting the grass  

[DeltaFlyer]

3 hours ago, Coasterteam said:

Keep in mind just because the park doesn’t announce it doesn’t mean nothing is going to change. Every park gets an offseason budget to spice things up.

Will we see more Beast work? Are they gonna paint DB? Will they do track work on Diamondback by the trim? Will the parking lot get more repaving?

CF loves KI, it in my opinion is better than Cedar Point, it’s gonna get a Vortex replacement just give it time; stuff takes a while to plan. At this point you can know they likely are planning as it’s usually done 2 years in advance. 

My original post was not intended to be a complaint, griping, or anything of the sort. I am merely saying that for me, and what drives me to purchase a pass, the lack of something new is making it difficult to spend that kind of money again. Perhaps I’ll still get a pass, but it won’t be with all the bells and whistles. 

If the park was going to do some more work in the off-season, like painting Diamondback or more retracking, why would you wait to say anything about it? It seems like things like that could be taken advantage of. Just the other day, I saw a post from Kennywood on how they are about to repaint their Racer. Why would KI not want to hype some of that sort of thing up early? Baynum has been on top of their social media game lately. 

The points made above of the 2022 projects being pushed to 2023 makes sense to me. It just seems to me (not a marketing or PR person) that if you didn’t have a major addition planned you could at least showcase some TLC that will be coming instead of looking like Michigan’s Adventure. 

Please, why must we continue to use the “We just got a $30m giga coaster, why can’t you be happy” bit? I am so very grateful that the park we all love got that investment. I also understand we have been told that large capital improvements will have more years in between, with smaller events like Carnivale in between. It should not be unreasonable to be expecting something small like a restaurant, water park addition, or flat ride in between major additions.  Whatever that might be, even if it’s “Hey look! We are planning to re-do this flowerbed in the off-season to continue beautifying the park!” It could help someone make a decision on renewal. Even if they are in the minority, why not hype up the little things? 

6 hours ago, robintodd said:

I understand what you're getting at and I'm sure you're not the only person but I do strongly feel that you are in the minority. 

There are 7.7 billion people on the planet, 329.5 million in the US, 11.6 million in Ohio and 2.2 million in the greater Cincinnati area (29th most populous metropolitan area in the US and 1st in Ohio.  I remind myself every visit to KI how fortunate I am to not only live 20 minutes away from an amusement park but 6 hours away from 5 of them (KI, CP, KK, HW and Kennywood).  Let alone a park the quality of KI.  It's not something I take for granted no matter what the cost.

Through covid, the last 2 years have seen season pass sales stay steady or increase.  This was after people saying the were "done with CF because they didn't offer refunds in 2020".  If you want to spend your money elsewhere, go right ahead and visit Fritz at the zoo all summer next year.  I'll be riding The Beast and supporting a park that gave me a free renewal year during covid and a summer to remember this year with the 50th anniversary, oh and the food, don't forget the food :).  Still the best deal for the money all things considered.  I remember people complaining when they were selling gold passes for $99 and that it was too cheap and they were just trying to get people into the park.  Well looking at the past financial releases it seems to work in their favor as spending per person is up.

We read all the time people saying "this is the last straw" and making mild threats about what a multi-million dollar park with nearly 2 million attendance each year should and shouldn't do (remember last year on 5/22 when they hit capacity?  That was after covid!).  

As a longtime season pass holder (ever since they started offering them in the 80's) I still maintain that over the years I am still thousands of dollars ahead on the bargain.  If they lose 10% of the season pass holders it would only mean shorter lines and a less crowded park for those of us that continue to support this gem of the midwest. 

Again, this kind of response just comes off as “be grateful for what you have or go away and leave it for the rest of us”. This is a business, and a loss of 10% of season passes will be noticed by the shareholders. I agree with many of your points, KI is a gem and will likely continue to be under Cedar Fair. I also never said I was “done” with Cedar Fair because we didn’t get something new. I simply said I cannot justify the cost of a pass and all the add-ons for the first time in a while. 

[Coasterteam]

33 minutes ago, DeltaFlyer said:

If the park was going to do some more work in the off-season, like painting Diamondback or more retracking, why would you wait to say anything about it? It seems like things like that could be taken advantage of. Just the other day, I saw a post from Kennywood on how they are about to repaint their Racer. Why would KI not want to hype some of that sort of thing up early? Baynum has been on top of their social media game lately. 

The points made above of the 2022 projects being pushed to 2023 makes sense to me. It just seems to me (not a marketing or PR person) that if you didn’t have a major addition planned you could at least showcase some TLC that will be coming instead of looking like Michigan’s Adventure. 

That is a great point to make; I would rather the park be open about what they plan on doing but it seems more often than not they're very secretive behind closed doors. While I can't really blame them, as it's likely the way corporate wants them to deal with it, there's not much I can do to change that. 

More often then not the park is beaten to the announcement by enthusiasts who leak plans and/or on-going construction. The park is often not a fan of this sort of behavior too. Sometimes they purposefully "leak" things to get the ball rolling. 

[robintodd]

1 hour ago, DeltaFlyer said:

Again, this kind of response just comes off as “be grateful for what you have or go away and leave it for the rest of us”. This is a business, and a loss of 10% of season passes will be noticed by the shareholders. I agree with many of your points, KI is a gem and will likely continue to be under Cedar Fair. I also never said I was “done” with Cedar Fair because we didn’t get something new. I simply said I cannot justify the cost of a pass and all the add-ons for the first time in a while. 

You stated 

Quote

I understand that a park cannot get something big and new every year, but there has to be something that drives you to renew your pass. This year, for the first time since I’ve been a pass holder, there isn’t anything driving me to renew my pass. I am certain I am not the only person to feel that way.

It is the driving me to renew my pass that I took as you being done with Cedar Fair, since there was nothing compelling you to RENEW your season pass. 

I never said go away and leave it for the rest of us.  Simply that I do not share your seeming need for the park to put up something new every year to get me to come back.  They haven't added anything new to the water park yet it is still packed during the summer.  

As far as the 10% and shareholder thing I would point you to their TMM 2019 vs 2022 results in their latest financial disclosures.  (they don't look at 2020 and 2021 because of covid reasons and to show how things have rebounded post-pandemic) 

Attendance for all of CF parks in 2019 was 27.9M and in 2022 was 25.4M  a decrease of over 9%.  However the net revenues in 2019 were 1.47B and in 2022 were 1.71B and increase of 16% (if I've done my math right).  Per capita spending went from 48.32 in 2019 to 61.89 in 2022 with out of park revenues increasing from 169M in 2019 to 193M in 2022. (https://ir.cedarfair.com/overview/default.aspx)

Bottom line is season pass attendance isn't the only thing that drives their business.  They have diversified very will with the hotel properties and sports complexes (oh, and a golf course) such that even a 9% drop in ATTENDANCE (50% of which would be season pass holders, on average) didn't make a difference in the long run.  They are servicing less people and making more money in the meantime.  My guess is they could survive a drop in season pass sales at KI (even a large one) which they may face with the new gold pass price point.  Not to mention Breakers has been practically sold out with a price increase for this season.

I understand about downgrading, I myself am downgrading my grandkids from a platinum to a gold pass this year since I only take them to CP for 1 weekend and only go into the park on one of the days it's cheaper just to get a bring a friend pass on my platinum for them as opposed to paying the extra $100+ for the platinum.

[terry wass]

43 minutes ago, robintodd said:

 

I understand about downgrading, I myself am downgrading my grandkids from a platinum to a gold pass this year since I only take them to CP for 1 weekend and only go into the park on one of the days it's cheaper just to get a bring a friend pass on my platinum for them as opposed to paying the extra $100+ for the platinum.

I did the same thing. went to cp one time this year. So I went with gold pass only with food, drinks and photo which came to $ 364. If I go to CP my son has platinum and we will do a bring a friend discount and I'll just pay for all day drinks. VIP area really doesn't do anything for me .

[DeltaFlyer]

43 minutes ago, robintodd said:

I never said go away and leave it for the rest of us.  Simply that I do not share your seeming need for the park to put up something new every year to get me to come back.  They haven't added anything new to the water park yet it is still packed during the summer.  

8 hours ago, robintodd said:

If you want to spend your money elsewhere, go right ahead and visit Fritz at the zoo all summer next year.  I'll be riding The Beast and supporting a park that gave me a free renewal year during covid and a summer to remember this year with the 50th anniversary, oh and the food, don't forget the food :). 

As a longtime season pass holder (ever since they started offering them in the 80's) I still maintain that over the years I am still thousands of dollars ahead on the bargain.  If they lose 10% of the season pass holders it would only mean shorter lines and a less crowded park for those of us that continue to support this gem of the midwest. 

I am confused, where do you say that you don't want it left to "those of us who continue to support this gem of the midwest"? All I see is that you say if I'm not happy, I can spend my money elsewhere. You then continue to state how if people like me were to leave, you'd have a better time with shorter lines? If this was not your intent, please clarify.

 

48 minutes ago, robintodd said:

As far as the 10% and shareholder thing I would point you to their TMM 2019 vs 2022 results in their latest financial disclosures.  (they don't look at 2020 and 2021 because of covid reasons and to show how things have rebounded post-pandemic) 

Attendance for all of CF parks in 2019 was 27.9M and in 2022 was 25.4M  a decrease of over 9%.  However the net revenues in 2019 were 1.47B and in 2022 were 1.71B and increase of 16% (if I've done my math right).  Per capita spending went from 48.32 in 2019 to 61.89 in 2022 with out of park revenues increasing from 169M in 2019 to 193M in 2022. (https://ir.cedarfair.com/overview/default.aspx)

Bottom line is season pass attendance isn't the only thing that drives their business.  They have diversified very will with the hotel properties and sports complexes (oh, and a golf course) such that even a 9% drop in ATTENDANCE (50% of which would be season pass holders, on average) didn't make a difference in the long run.  They are servicing less people and making more money in the meantime.  My guess is they could survive a drop in season pass sales at KI (even a large one) which they may face with the new gold pass price point.  Not to mention Breakers has been practically sold out with a price increase for this season.

I understand about downgrading, I myself am downgrading my grandkids from a platinum to a gold pass this year since I only take them to CP for 1 weekend and only go into the park on one of the days it's cheaper just to get a bring a friend pass on my platinum for them as opposed to paying the extra $100+ for the platinum.

Your entire argument above is about how "they could survive a drop in season pass sales at KI". Why would you not want them to be as successful as possible? More pass sales = more money = better additions more frequently. The only point I am trying to make is why wouldn't you announce something? I'd rather hear an announcement telling us that some new grass seed has been planted than nothing at all.  Tell us about some painting! Some gardening! 

[robintodd]

27 minutes ago, DeltaFlyer said:

I am confused, where do you say that you don't want it left to "those of us who continue to support this gem of the midwest"? All I see is that you say if I'm not happy, I can spend my money elsewhere. You then continue to state how if people like me were to leave, you'd have a better time with shorter lines? If this was not your intent, please clarify.

 

Your entire argument above is about how "they could survive a drop in season pass sales at KI". Why would you not want them to be as successful as possible? More pass sales = more money = better additions more frequently. The only point I am trying to make is why wouldn't you announce something? I'd rather hear an announcement telling us that some new grass seed has been planted than nothing at all.  Tell us about some painting! Some gardening! 

No, simply that if people 'like you' didn't go I wouldn't have to hear you complaining about things that don't make a bit of difference to the stock holders because CF is still making money.  Biggest problem in our country is the stock market.  Neither the person providing the service/good nor the consumer is thought of because it's the stock holder (who most of the time is neither the supplier or the consumer) is the one who needs to be happy.  Makes no sense. 

But it is true, if you're not happy with the season pass, then don't buy one.  It's the negativity that seems far too prevalent in our society nowadays.

They did announce something, Grand Carnivale.  Not saying it's a big something but is is something.  

I guess I was just brought up to be thankful for what I have rather than what I don't.

And yes, from being at the park and talking to people I believe a majority of people like shorter lines.  

Weird thing is the more popular/longer lines seem to have more people in them....  

[disco2000]

Attendance is a weird dynamic that publicly traded amusement parks and shareholders use as a metric, but it would be nice to see this trend change from the past, but perception plays a big part in it.

Past years, all shareholders and the Board cared about was attendance, attendance, attendance.  For years we would see record attendance, yet per cap spending was going down.  Anytime there was a dip in anything, Bring a Friend for $9.99 days happened to increase the attendance.

Attendance going down is a perceived problem with publicly traded companies and share value usually takes a hit, even if the revenue and profit are records.  For example, look what happened to their unit price after each CF "quarterly" or update announcement about record revenues but lower attendance...it's value dropped on average about 6% those days...

When the narrative and perception is that attendance is the guiding factor, that is when we see the gate given away and the attention to the "little things" pushed aside.  And then it brings in a different kind of guest that doesn't spend anything once in the park, so revenues actually decline on a per cap basis.

If the perception and narrative could be changed to focus on revenue and profit with attendance as a lesser factor, then I think we will continue to see all the "little things" improvements we have been seeing. 

Personally I think that is the direction CF is going, at least with KI.  Did we see any of the crazy cheap Bring a Friend deals this year after their update indicated reduced attendance - Nope!  That is a big shift from years past.  I remember back in 2018 after the July update showed CF drop in attendance, the next day was wholesale cuts and BAF cheap days.

Chainwide, many still question the whole cheap gold pass at CP and how for being the destination and flagship park, they are still giving away the gate, but that is another topic and discussion to go somewhere else LOL.

I think KI has recognized that when you focus on the "little things" then the revenue and profit increase because people are spending more.  This has been a multi-year initiative that started with the I-street revamp, return of the antique cars, and fixing the glockenspiel, all the way through to fixing the carousel organ and Phantom Theater Encore and everything in between.

And then a funny thing happens...you get increased visits and per cap spending despite not giving away the gate....

Why... because a well-kept park with attention to detail is one of the subconscious acts that causes the non-riders to thrill seekers to want to spend more time in the park.  Ambiance plays a bigger role than people admit or think about.  And with that increased time comes more spending.  I do not think the well-received 50th merchandise and all the collector pins of former rides, etc. would be as hot selling as they are if the attention to detail and pulling on the emotional memory strings had not been started with all the little things improvements.

They mentioned the "dip" in attendance is mainly due to the lack of group sales and picnics as many companies have yet to re-engage in those types of events, but outside of those groups, the attendance is up.  Based on season pass sales, next year will probably see both an increase in attendance and per cap spending, maybe both as records, as I think many of the group sales and picnics will start picking back up.

[BeeastFarmer]

@disco2000can I get an AMEN?!

This was one of the best wall of text I've seen out of you....but....where are ....all the.....at???

[disco2000]

1 minute ago, BeeastFarmer said:

@disco2000can I get an AMEN?!

This was one of the best wall of text I've seen out of you....but....where are ....all the.....at???

I am trying to cut back with no more than two per post LOL

[KI Guy]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:22 PM, DeltaFlyer said:

I’ve had a season pass every year for the last 10+ years...

I understand that a park cannot get something big and new every year, but there has to be something that drives you to renew your pass. This year, for the first time since I’ve been a pass holder, there isn’t anything driving me to renew my pass. I am certain I am not the only person to feel that way.

@robintodd reading the above @DeltaFlyer is not a whiner who only buys passes when there's a new coaster. Ten straight years of passes is pretty solid.

It's good that you are enjoying the park. However, most of us are (or should be) glad "on- again off-again" visitors exist. Without them there would never be a reason to make any new additions to the park (above maintenance/replacement).

The fact that amusement parks add things on a regular basis rather than simply maintain the status quo means that they bring people and money through the gate.

We'll see in some capacity how this might affect attendance and per capita spending-- although KI is just one piece of the CF pie.

[Bansheelover]

Do we want something new every year has passholders, yes? Does Kings Island need it? No. Imagine being Dorney, Michigan's Adventure, WOF, or Vallyefair who get no love at all. I am willing to bet 2024 or 25 will be a huge year for KI. As a new coaster, and hopefully 2-3 flats, and a waterpark improvements are coming.  With the large KI passholder group Ki will always be at top of chain to get something. It is also nice not to get things keeps crowds down, and we can enjoy the park for a year without pure insanity. 

[BeeastFarmer]

I'm ok with it if the park continues to improve the experience next year.  Contrary to what many think, it will take some time to recoup from the 2020 and to a less extent, 2021 losses.  

I'd rather have the 2022 experience with more improvements in 2023 than a new major attraction.  Those will come.

However, they probably should plan something major for 2024.  For example, I have decided not to renew my Kentucky Kingdom pass for next year.  I'm not mad, bitter or jaded, I just want to see something added.  Pumpkins will be great for the park, but HFE needs to add something big to KK to make a statement.  I feel if CF does KI 2024 without something big, some passholders might begin to view it the same way I am vieiwing KK.