Bye bye, Boo Blasters

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I also remember back in 2022 well before Adventure Port was announced that the big rumor was the 2023 addition was going to be a Phantom Theater revival in Boo Blasters. Looking back, maybe that was the original 2023 plan then it got put on hold when Slingshot left and AP came along and Snoopy and Soak City additions were a bigger priority at the time. 

[Imperial79]

Maybe we could see the Peanuts dark ride that was asked in the season pass questionnaire a year or so ago, and then the new Phantom Theater ride go in the Cyrpt building. Haven’t really seen many people talk about that possibility, that would give Planet Snoopy another ride/attraction if they went that route. Just a few more days now to see what they have planned!   

[BryanJay]

2 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

My guess for what we will see on Thursday is either a second teaser leading to an announcement next week (why wait even longer?) or the announcement itself.

I’m very confident that Thursday’s the actual announcement and not other teaser. I think part of what made the first part of the teaser work so well is it presents the uncertainty over if the new ride is a Boo Blasters replacement or going in the Crypt, and I think any continued parts to the teaser would ruin this mystery, or add further hints that it’s PT that really isn’t needed. I also don’t think the PR team wouldn’t post a countdown on instagram if it wasn’t that day (also lines up with going before the closure so they can advertise the new attraction on any construction fences that might go up. 

[BeeastFarmer]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Well I no longer work at KI so nothing to worry about lol. 

I am utterly shocked!

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 minute ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I am utterly shocked!

Yeah. I left back in July. It was voluntarily and I wasn't fired or forced out. I have no bad blood with the park or company. I had 6 great seasons as a ride op. 

[disco2000]

44 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Yeah. I left back in July. It was voluntarily and I wasn't fired or forced out. I have no bad blood with the park or company. I had 6 great seasons as a ride op. 

So the calls to John can start up again 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

8 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

So the calls to John can start up again 

Those days are over lol. I won't message him like that again. I learned my lesson during the Orion thread lol. 

[MaestroJr]

I think an interesting take would be a Phantom Theater with flashlights as the “blasters” and the goal is to find the maestro and his crew hiding in the darkness 

[ReedObsessor]

Theme Park Brandon just covered this, and he brought up the idea of both a Boo Blasters replacement and a new ride in the Crypt building.

Though the possible ride coming to the Crypt building might not be "new"...

[VioletCoronet50]

Theme Park Brandon also mentioned that there is fencing where the axe throwing/soccer game was. I'm wondering how that will be a part of the new experience

[Diamondback_Is_King]

Oh I really don't like Brandon. Not anything against the guy, just that he makes the wildest and craziest guesses that will never happen. I used to watch his stuff all the time but stopped after hearing a park was getting a giga coaster for the millionth time.

Anyway, I do think two attractions in 2026 is not totally out of the realm of possibility. What would be wild is if we had two planned attractions for 2026, and then an attraction from SFA (the Zamperla Nebulaz), which would go in the Axe Throwing game plot. Probably not gonna happen though. And I don't know if there would be enough space for a flat ride and a queue line.

[Shaggy]

4 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I also remember back in 2022 well before Adventure Port was announced that the big rumor was the 2023 addition was going to be a Phantom Theater revival in Boo Blasters. Looking back, maybe that was the original 2023 plan then it got put on hold when Slingshot left and AP came along and Snoopy and Soak City additions were a bigger priority at the time. 

That's all it was... a rumor.  A "new" Phantom Theater attraction was not planned for previous seasons.

The waterpark expansion was supposed to be 2023.  It was pushed back (first by a year, then by two) when Koontz decided an Octoberfest facelift was a bigger priority.  That's why AP opened late, because it was a last minute switch and rides/theming outsourcing were not contracted well in advance as they typically are.  The following year, the Camp Snoopy expansion took priority, in part, to try and regain the "Best Kids Area" title.  (Didn't quite pan out.)  Koontz was very up-front in that no major coaster install was planned for the forseeable future.  That is because they did not see a significant return on investment with Orion.  

BTW - For those questioning if the Crypt building has something to do with a "new" PT... it doesn't.   Boo Blasters is closing early for a reason.

[MaestroJr]

2 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

That's all it was... a rumor.  A "new" Phantom Theater attraction was not planned for previous seasons.

The waterpark expansion was supposed to be 2023.  It was pushed back (first by a year, then by two) when Koontz decided an Octoberfest facelift was a bigger priority.  That's why AP opened late, because it was a last minute switch and rides/theming outsourcing were not contracted well in advance as they typically are.  The following year, the Camp Snoopy expansion took priority, in part, to try and regain the "Best Kids Area" title.  (Didn't quite pan out.)  Koontz was very up-front in that no major coaster install was planned for the forseeable future.  That is because they did not see a significant return on investment with Orion.  

BTW - For those questioning if the Crypt building has something to do with a "new" PT... it doesn't.   Boo Blasters is closing early for a reason.

Interesting take shaggy, I just hope that if we do get a “new” PT, that it is done with TLC, it would be nice for the new generation to experience even a little of what made the original Phantom special 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

25 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

That's all it was... a rumor.  A "new" Phantom Theater attraction was not planned for previous seasons.

The waterpark expansion was supposed to be 2023.  It was pushed back (first by a year, then by two) when Koontz decided an Octoberfest facelift was a bigger priority.  That's why AP opened late, because it was a last minute switch and rides/theming outsourcing were not contracted well in advance as they typically are.  The following year, the Camp Snoopy expansion took priority, in part, to try and regain the "Best Kids Area" title.  (Didn't quite pan out.)  Koontz was very up-front in that no major coaster install was planned for the forseeable future.  That is because they did not see a significant return on investment with Orion.  

BTW - For those questioning if the Crypt building has something to do with a "new" PT... it doesn't.   Boo Blasters is closing early for a reason.

May I ask where you got this information from? Also was the planned 2023 SC expansion the same that we got in 2025 and was Pipeline planned to be retired at the end of 2022 for it? 

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

2 hours ago, Imperial79 said:

Maybe we could see the Peanuts dark ride that was asked in the season pass questionnaire a year or so ago, and then the new Phantom Theater ride go in the Cyrpt building. Haven’t really seen many people talk about that possibility, that would give Planet Snoopy another ride/attraction if they went that route. Just a few more days now to see what they have planned!   

There's a big question of whether or not the Peanuts will even be in the park next year. It's likely more cost efficient to remove all of the Peanuts characters from the Kings Island than it may be to renew the licensing for all of the parks it's at. The sign shop is able to produce new signage (whether it is Looney Tunes/DC or de-themed entirely) for all of the rides until a full refresh can be budgeted for. It's not unheard of for parks to have an IP-less family area, as is the case for Wildwood Grove at Dollywood and Jr. Thrillseekers at Great Adventure. I'd personally prefer to see KI try out a non-IP themed kids area, but I can understand the issues it may have getting the idea off of the ground.

 

1 hour ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

Oh I really don't like Brandon. Not anything against the guy, just that he makes the wildest and craziest guesses that will never happen. I used to watch his stuff all the time but stopped after hearing a park was getting a giga coaster for the millionth time.

He's good to watch when you need an idea for a layout in Planet Coaster  I've stopped clicking on his videos for the most part, but at least the ideas are fun to hear no matter how wild the theories are.

 

26 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

The following year, the Camp Snoopy expansion took priority, in part, to try and regain the "Best Kids Area" title.  (Didn't quite pan out.)  Koontz was very up-front in that no major coaster install was planned for the forseeable future.  That is because they did not see a significant return on investment with Orion.  

Maybe they could've taken back the Golden Ticket Award if Camp Snoopy had opened on time and taken over more/all of Planet Snoopy. I think the delayed opening is one of the reasons why Siren's Curse has no chance for a Golden Ticket (even if Epic Universe hadn't opened this year). Orion, on the other hand, might've been a product of when it opened and the fact that it was seen as barely being a giga coaster. Mike Koontz also said that the decision to remove Vortex was regretted since it wouldn't be replaced in a decent amount of time. Maybe we'll get another coaster by 2028.

I'll put it back out there that Kings Island while may be a "family park", its history of thrilling and record-breaking roller coasters should not be ignored. It would not have gotten where it is today without rides like The Beast, Vortex, Diamondback, and Banshee.

[Orion-XL200]

6 hours ago, BryanJay said:

This photo from Kings Island shows them.

Okay that is cute. Thanks for sharing! 

7 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

^^ Mason I believe changed the way permits/plans are filed. The website that was used last year when RiverRacers was leaked, has been basically disabled for several months. I don't know if there's a new site or we're back to going to the City Hall for plans. Has anyone tried that yet? 

Mason did change the way they are shared. I had emailed and they now list the permits filed for the month....so if it was filed in June, you won't see it until July, July in August and so on. The information is not as good, but it's good enough for info.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

12 minutes ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

Mike Koontz also said that the decision to remove Vortex was regretted since it wouldn't be replaced in a decent amount of time. Maybe we'll get another coaster by 2028.

Where did Mike Koontz say that? I'm not saying KI managment doesn't regret Vortex's removal since I'm sure their thought back then if you would ask them now is by 2025 a new ride would be there, but then this thing called a pandemic happened basically destroying their 5 year plan and making the ROI on a 30 million dollar investment harder to get. Then you have the merger with Six Flags come into play. 

I also think while the desire is to replace Vortex before putting a coaster somewhere else, if rides like Invertigo and Congo reach the end of their lives and they have no choice but to remove them, I think they'd change plans and put the next big thing there first as having a giant empty hole right at the front gate is not a good first impression. If that's the case, we may not get a Vortex replacement until around the 60th anniversary in 2032. 

[disco2000]

7 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Where did Mike Koontz say that? I'm not saying KI managment doesn't regret Vortex's removal since I'm sure their thought back then if you would ask them now is by 2025 a new ride would be there, but then this thing called a pandemic happened basically destroying their 5 year plan and making the ROI on a 30 million dollar investment harder to get. Then you have the merger with Six Flags come into play. 

I also think while the desire is to replace Vortex before putting a coaster somewhere else, if rides like Invertigo and Congo reach the end of their lives and they have no choice but to remove them, I think they'd change plans and put the next big thing there first as having a giant empty hole right at the front gate is not a good first impression. If that's the case, we may not get a Vortex replacement until around the 60th anniversary in 2032. 

 

I overhead Mike saying it at the Cheesecake Factory (cross-threading) 

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

I think it was quoted in the Tower Topics episode about Adventure Port. The point was definitely repeated in another Tower Topics episode IIRC. I know I'd have regretted pulling the plug on Vortex if there was a chance it could have lasted a little while longer. At least we got to say goodbye in 2019 instead of it being ripped out without notice in 2024. The idea of something going into The Crypt building in 2026 was also heard on Tower Topics in case you were wondering. 

I'd personally like to see it come before the 60th for more than the general replacement timeline. I'm a firm believer that the big 10-year anniversaries should be reserved for improvements that don't take up all of a park's budget for the year. Part of me thinks Rapterra — despite being a much-needed replacement — is one of the reasons why Kings Dominion's 50th was so lackluster. It ate up some of the budget that could have gone into restoring their Carousel and repainting Racer 75 in addition to other big park improvements. Looking back at Kings Island's big 10's we've seen: 

• 1982: Winterfest debuts as part of the 10th anniversary season. 
• 1992: Phantom Theater debuts as part of the 20th anniversary season. 
• 2002: Tomb Raider: The Ride opens as part of the 30th anniversary season. 
• 2012: Soak City replaces Boomerang Bay as part of the 40th anniversary season. 
• 2022: Kings Island receives major refreshes across the entire park for its 50th anniversary season.

More things like that would be great when the 60th comes around in 2032. Maybe something coaster-related will happen for 2027 now that things are all shifted around with Six Flags. Maybe it will be 2028 or long after that. If Invertigo and Congo Falls do get removed before a Vortex replacement is installed, I don't think they'll be as noticeable as Vortex's absence has been since they can barely be seen from the parking lot and since some well-placed fences can hide their former areas. Diagram below for visualization purposes with the fencing in red. I won't call my reasonings sound, but I also think replacing one coaster is more important than immediately replacing the other.

 

I wonder how Boo Blasters will look when the park reopens on September 19th. If this announcement comes on Thursday (as I hope it does), maybe they'll have banners up for it on the fences. 

[DonHelbig]

1 hour ago, Shaggy said:

That's all it was... a rumor.  A "new" Phantom Theater attraction was not planned for previous seasons.

The waterpark expansion was supposed to be 2023.  It was pushed back (first by a year, then by two) when Koontz decided an Octoberfest facelift was a bigger priority.  That's why AP opened late, because it was a last minute switch and rides/theming outsourcing were not contracted well in advance as they typically are.  The following year, the Camp Snoopy expansion took priority, in part, to try and regain the "Best Kids Area" title.  (Didn't quite pan out.)  Koontz was very up-front in that no major coaster install was planned for the forseeable future.  That is because they did not see a significant return on investment with Orion.  

BTW - For those questioning if the Crypt building has something to do with a "new" PT... it doesn't.   Boo Blasters is closing early for a reason.

They dropped from second to third in the GTA for Best Kids’ Area. Not panning out is putting it mildly. 

[brenthodge]

51 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

 

I overhead Mike saying it at the Cheesecake Factory (cross-threading) 

good one!

 

[KI Guy]

14 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

They dropped from second to third in the GTA for Best Kids’ Area. Not panning out is putting it mildly. 

They've been trying to save money and get the same ROI. It just doesn't work that way.

2018  Nothing

2019  A worse version of the old antique cars

2020  Cheapest Giga(ish) coaster they could get by with.

2021  Nothing

2022  50th celebration without major investment

2023  Worse (cheapest) version of Der Spinnen' Keggers and Skylab

2024  Half-baked revamp with Camp Snoopy

- Cheapest coaster they could get by with.

- Cheapest play area they could get by with.

2025  Cheapest Water Coaster they could get by with.

Lack of investment has consequences. Those old (steel) coasters they rely on to bring people in and fill the park out don't last forever either. They're probably not even keeping up with replacement rate at this point.

Kings Island used to be world class in everything!

[cdubbs727]

16 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

They've been trying to save money and get the same ROI. It just doesn't work that way.

2018  Nothing

2019  A Worse version of the old antique cars

2020  Cheapest Giga(ish) coaster they could get by with.

2021  Nothing

2022  50th celebration without major investment

2023  Worse (cheapest) version of Der Spinnen' Keggers and Skylab

2024  Half-baked revamp with Camp Snoopy

- Cheapest coaster they could get by with.

- Cheapest play area they could get by with.

2025  Cheapest Water Coaster they could get by with.

Lack of investment has consequences. Those old (steel) coasters they rely on to bring people in and fill the park out don't last forever either. They're probably not even keeping up with replacement rate at this point.

Kings Island used to be world class in everything!

 

 

I don't know, I think you're underselling some of those and forgetting others. 

Orion's been a good addition to the park. Is it the biggest, most thrilling coaster in the world? No, but it's a very fun addition to the lineup. Adventure Port gave a retheme to a fairly dead area of the park. The Camp Snoopy addition is popular with kids and Soapbox Racers is a really good family coaster. They also have added good restaurants in the Brewhouse and Coney BBQ, and you left out that in 2022 they also gave International Street some much-needed improvements. They've added Carnival. 

I kind of hate this idea that a great investment has to be a major coaster or thrill attraction. A major part of theme park audiences is not thrillseekers but families and people who are coming to get a dose of nostalgia. I think the park's additions have been good for that -- and it might be an investment that only pays off years down the road when today's kids are old enough to bring their kids. 

[brenthodge]

19 minutes ago, cdubbs727 said:

I don't know, I think you're underselling some of those and forgetting others. 

Orion's been a good addition to the park. Is it the biggest, most thrilling coaster in the world? No, but it's a very fun addition to the lineup. Adventure Port gave a retheme to a fairly dead area of the park. The Camp Snoopy addition is popular with kids and Soapbox Racers is a really good family coaster. They also have added good restaurants in the Brewhouse and Coney BBQ, and you left out that in 2022 they also gave International Street some much-needed improvements. They've added Carnival. 

I kind of hate this idea that a great investment has to be a major coaster or thrill attraction. A major part of theme park audiences is not thrillseekers but families and people who are coming to get a dose of nostalgia. I think the park's additions have been good for that -- and it might be an investment that only pays off years down the road when today's kids are old enough to bring their kids. 

Agree to aLL of this and to say the 50th got no major investment - thats not true TONS of money was invested into historical decor, 4 original shows, a daily "mini parade" and  closing show infrastructure thats in use nightly though the summer. In additiona to ride and facilities refreshes. I'd say it was a lot of invesment and more than most got for their 50ths. 

[BeeastFarmer]

Don't forget about the investment in two KI original signature rides: The Racer and The Beast.

[KI Guy]

1 hour ago, cdubbs727 said:

I don't know, I think you're underselling some of those and forgetting others.  

Am I really though? The average park guest doesn't care all that much if they've changed a couple restaurants or retracked a coaster; that's just upkeep at the end of the day.  Coasters need to be maintained, restaurants need to stay up-to-date. It's the super enthusiasts who spend time talking about (or even specifically notice) slight improvements to a restaurant menu or a new coat of paint on a building.

In terms of raw dollars invested into the park the numbers don't seem to be in-line with historical levels..

1 hour ago, cdubbs727 said:

I kind of hate this idea that a great investment has to be a major coaster or thrill attraction. A major part of theme park audiences is not thrillseekers but families and people who are coming to get a dose of nostalgia.

Correct, it is not all about thrill rides. Unfortunately, their family additions have also been lackluster compared to what they did in the past. They have been doing just enough to check a box because they are not being given the historic levels of investment money.

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

Agree to aLL of this and to say the 50th got no major investment - thats not true TONS of money was invested into historical decor, 4 original shows, a daily "mini parade" and  closing show infrastructure thats in use nightly though the summer. In additiona to ride and facilities refreshes. I'd say it was a lot of invesment and more than most got for their 50ths. 

Upkeep and refreshing of decor is general upkeep. Of course, marketing will sell it as an addition as they probably should. They can only work with what they're given.

I'm glad the park had a 50th anniversary celebration, but the park should have several shows regardless and did historically. Those weren't really replaced so it wasn't a long-term benefit at the end of the day.

Comparing KI to other SF and (legacy CF) parks is not my barometer; it's comparing KI to its past self and under that measure they are not keeping up.

[disco2000]

24 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

Am I really though? The average park guest doesn't care all that much if they've changed a couple restaurants or retracked a coaster; that's just upkeep at the end of the day.  Coasters need to be maintained, restaurants need to stay up-to-date. It's the super enthusiasts who spend time talking about (or even specifically notice) slight improvements to a restaurant menu or a new coat of paint on a building.

In terms of raw dollars invested into the park the numbers don't seem to be in-line with historical levels..

Correct, it is not all about thrill rides. Unfortunately, their family additions have also been lackluster compared to what they did in the past. They have been doing just enough to check a box because they are not being given the historic levels of investment money.

Upkeep and refreshing of decor is general upkeep. Of course, marketing will sell it as an addition as they probably should. They can only work with what they're given.

I'm glad the park had a 50th anniversary celebration, but the park should have several shows regardless and did historically. Those weren't really replaced so it wasn't a long-term benefit at the end of the day.

Comparing KI to other SF and (legacy CF) parks is not my barometer; it's comparing KI to its past self and under that measure they are not keeping up.

Hanks and Enrique's is the same food and inside is the same.  They slapped some paint on the exterior and a new name and the place is way more packed than it was as Hanks (I don't ever recall Hanks having a line out the door and that is common now), so it did make a positive difference....

The market has changed and comparing the KI of today/tomorrow to the KI of yesteryear is setting one up for disappointment.

Comparing the record breaking and prototypes we used to get to now is a fair comparison and you are right based on that comparison, but their strategy then was to get name recognition and be known and that is not the strategy or market right now. 

Right now families is where the money is.  That is where the investment will continue until the market and consumer spending dictate a change.  

But I don't see a coaster wars scenario returning until there is close competition to warrant it.  Right now CP, HW, DW, KI, etc. all have their lanes and it is working for them.

[KI Guy]

16 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Right now families is where the money is.  That is where the investment will continue until the market and consumer spending dictate a change.  

Okay, but where is the family addition on the level of White Water Canyon or Adventure Express or even Italian Job: Stunt Track? Why only retheme half of Planet Snoopy?

Since 2018 each addition, including family additions, has been less than it could have been.

I understand they're a mature park in a much less innovative/more mature industry than it used to be, but did some switch flip after 2017 that said they don't need to put in as much money?

[disco2000]

2 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

Okay, but where is the family addition on the level of White Water Canyon or Adventure Express? Why only retheme half of Planet Snoopy?

Every addition including family editions have been less than it could have been since 2018.

I understand they're a mature park in a much less innovative/more mature industry than it used to be, but did some switch flip after 2017 that said they don't need to put in as much money?

 

I have said for years, good or bad, that because KI is so woven into the fabric of the community that enough people buy passes for themselves or grandchildren and never go and still buy passes every year because of the perceived value that the park could cut back on spending without much loss of revenue.  Sad but true.  Sure they lose some enthusiasts, but it is more than made up with new families.

This is supported with Six Flags stating KI is the most oversaturated park in the chain.  That dictates the spending.

I have joked here that we could Geauga Lake the place and still sell 100,000 passes to a closed park LOL.  KI passes are that much of a summer tradition to many people.

I have also joked here we could go years without spending any money before enough would say "I am not renewing" to make a measurable impact.   Now who knows if that is 2, 5, 10, or 15 years LOL.  Let's hope they don't go that extreme.

They will never admit this, but they probably wanna see how little can they spend before they see measurable drops in passes and attendance at KI.

KI is not in growth mode.  They are in maintain their base with small incremental growth mode and that drives the spending amount.  That is what happens when a park is oversaturated in their market.  The small enthusiasts communities don't like that, but you would be surprised how many people rate their experiences as great because they are not following the "drama" found here and on social media.  They go and have a great time and don't care who the PR person is or that a trash can hasn't been emptied yet.

One could say they are complacent.  And in a sense they are, but as long as people keep coming and spending, they have no incentive to do more than what they need to.

[Shaggy]

49 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

 

I have said for years, good or bad, that because KI is so woven into the fabric of the community that enough people buy passes for themselves or grandchildren and never go and still buy passes every year because of the perceived value that the park could cut back on spending without much loss of revenue.  Sad but true.  Sure they lose some enthusiasts, but it is more than made up with new families.

This is supported with Six Flags stating KI is the most oversaturated park in the chain.  That dictates the spending.

This is correct...

The new "Six Flags" has stated emphatically on all investor calls that their goal is to increase the attendance base on the flagship SF parks to bring them to a level that matches the legacy CF parks.  That's why they are focused on major installs and general park improvements in flagship SF parks located in huge metro areas. 

Kings Island far surpasses virtually every other park in the chain when it comes to its huge season passholder base.   Its essentially the litmus test by which they are trying to mirror with the other parks in the chain.  Execs see no need to rock the KI boat as they view KI's formula as highly successful.  Why mess with success?  A major install will come... but as stated many times before... they are completely focused on maintaining the passholder base which consists primarily of locals and families.  

I have noticed that KI has been terrific about investing in infrastructure improvements.  That doesn't read to most enthusiasts as "major", but if they had not continually re-invested millions upon millions in maintaining general esthetics, KI would be a trash park.   Its actually, by far, one of the most well maintained parks in the country.

That doesn't mean there haven't been disappointments along the way.... that year they added Coney Bar-b-Que was very wah-waaah....  Yes, a new Coney Mall restaurant was needed - and welcome - but even I thought it was the least interesting season in terms of new additions and improvements. (Granted, this followed a season where a new coaster was added, and Winterfest returned.)