From Coaster101:

https://www.facebook.com/share/14xUTQxusAf/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Ryan has heard rumors that AFO can and possibly will be modified in some capacity for its new location.

3 hours ago, teenageninja said:

Unless they do something about the capacity, I would think 900 riders an hour would be a tough add for KI.

"Available with FastPass+™ only"

30 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

They are down in attendance. Fact. Not opinion.

Based on what data?

Even granting that it's accurate that attendance is down, two things:

1. Being down in attendance doesn't mean they are not hitting resort occupancy targets. They need not install a new ride to goose resort occupancy. Far easier and less costly to adjust lodging rates.

2. Attendance by property, which is not reported publicly, is, according to historical texts and comments from park officials, typically down in years where new marquee rides are not installed. That does not mean it's down enough to justify the cost of adding a new ride.

Further, for a company supposedly looking to "cut costs and save money", there are plenty of other parks where installation would be far less costly - the removal of a massive marquee attraction ain't cheap, especially considering SV is still pretty new in accounting terms.

So yeah, maybe tearing down SV and installing AFO would net very long term savings on maintenance. But it seems the chain's financial needs are more immediate than such a move could possibly justify.

1 hour ago, DonHelbig said:

They current have a world class RMC. They may opt to swap that out for one that significantly reduces the maintenance cost. Laugh if you want but we’re living in a world where they’re looking to cut costs and save money.

I’ve heard that too.

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Based on what data?

Math.

8 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

I'd be surprised if SF has decided definitively where AF is going. I'm sure the list of candidates is narrowed down to one or two parks, but there's a nonzero amount of surveying, engineering, etc., work that needs to be done before they'll "know" where it's going.

All of this right here. The chain probably still needs to get quotes for land grading, modifications to add capacity/adjust the layout to fit in a park, and look into permitting to make sure they can even install it in a park. I bet that's why the location announcement will have to wait until the end of this year and why the coaster construction may not even be finished until 2028/2029.

5 minutes ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

All of this right here. The chain probably still needs to get quotes for land grading, modifications to add capacity/adjust the layout to fit in a park, and look into permitting to make sure they can even install it in a park. I bet that's why the location announcement will have to wait until the end of this year and why the coaster construction may not even be finished until 2028/2029.

They didn’t buy something at a yard sale without having a plan for what they were going to do with it, not knowing what extra costs they might incur, not knowing if they could even install it in a park. They want the chatter it’s generating. It takes the focus off the negative news cycle they’ve been in.

7 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

They didn’t buy something at a yard sale without having a plan for what they were going to do with it, not knowing what extra costs they might incur, not knowing if they could even install it in a park. They want the chatter it’s generating. It takes the focus off the negative news cycle they’ve been in.

I agree, they knew where they wanted it to go before they made the purchase. No question in my mind there.

 

24 minutes ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

All of this right here. The chain probably still needs to get quotes for land grading, modifications to add capacity/adjust the layout to fit in a park, and look into permitting to make sure they can even install it in a park. I bet that's why the location announcement will have to wait until the end of this year and why the coaster construction may not even be finished until 2028/2029.

We have a prime example of a coaster that was planned for a park but didn't work out, so it was moved to Kings Island with Orion. If the plans for the park originally intended for ArieForce One do not work out, it will just get moved elsewhere. That is another reason for the delay in the announcement. Now, that is just my opinion.

Not gonna lie, my first thought when I heard they bought this was "With what money?" Judging by how they staffed Kings Island this weekend, it would seem like Six Flags doesn't have any room in the budget to spare. Operations across all departments felt like they were at bare bones despite it being a holiday weekend with great weather.

Regarding the actual sale itself, I can't help but feel lukewarm about it. I'm glad the ride lives on, but I also can't really feel hyped about it. So much of the anticipation comes from the gradual reveal, piecing clues together, and looking forward to whatever the ride experience may be; but I feel like once we know where it's heading, that's going to be the end of the excitement. It might be nice to ride it again if it ends up nearby, but it's not something I'm itching to get on no matter where it ends up... And if it does end up at Kings Island, for me, it will always feel like a hand me down. There'd be no finer point to it not belonging to the park than it retaining its original name.

Whether the coaster is relocated won't matter with time. Ask the Phoenix fans at Knoebel's.

13 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

They didn’t buy something at a yard sale without having a plan for what they were going to do with it

Well, sure. But that doesn't mean they are certain they know what park is getting this thing.

16 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

Math.

That's a pretty "snarky" way to refuse to substantiate a claim.

13 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

If the plans for the park originally intended for ArieForce One do not work out, it will just get moved elsewhere.

But doesn't that imply the chain is not yet certain where the ride will go?

What seems most likely to me is that SF has a very short list of places where the ride would be a good fit and can be installed, in terms of available space, justified ROI, etc., (they wouldn't have purchased the ride without such a list, obviously) and is working down that list to confirm the best fit. In other words, they aren't yet certain where the ride will go.

One thing I don't like about the idea of changing the layout of AFO: the change of that outward banked airtime hill. That element is just so fun and different compared to almost any ride at any park.

They must have got one heck of a deal on it, or RMC is trying to take a loss in order for potential future gain.

I'm not certain how roller coasters are "paid off" in the real world. And each manufacturer is different. Like with Orion, B&M certainly didn't charge KI $30 million. They likely got design, engineering, consult fees, etc. Then the park paid out the trades...footers, erectors, plumbing, electrical and so on.

But did the park take out a loan for the projected depreciation of the coaster? Did they have $30m sitting around for the project in an interest bearing account?

So with AF1, what if RMC took the balance owed from Fun spot to their assumed creditors, worked it out with Six Flags and Fun spot to make that the purchase price ( just for numbers sake, say 8m) and gave six flags a substantial discount for fees to move it and reassemble with modifications?

Steele Vengeance has been an expensive coaster to maintain from what I hear. The carpenters are constantly replacing wood due to the stresses. I've heard Railblazer was problematic ( and Fiesta Texas had to close theirs for quite a while for modifications). So Cedar Fair wasn't happy with the company. AF1 is a completely steel coaster, so even with relocation, it's likely to be less problematic than those two. Hence, a good chance for RMC to attempt to work on the relationship.

2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Well, sure. But that doesn't mean they are certain they know what park is getting this thing.

That's a pretty "snarky" way to refuse to substantiate a claim.

But doesn't that imply the chain is not yet certain where the ride will go?

What seems most likely to me is that SF has a very short list of places where the ride would be a good fit and can be installed, in terms of available space, justified ROI, etc., (they wouldn't have purchased the ride without such a list, obviously) and is working down that list to confirm the best fit. In other words, they aren't yet certain where the ride will go.

You can always tell you. but you cannot tell you much. 🤣

11 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

They must have got one heck of a deal on it, or RMC is trying to take a loss in order for potential future gain.

I'm not certain how roller coasters are "paid off" in the real world. And each manufacturer is different. Like with Orion, B&M certainly didn't charge KI $30 million. They likely got design, engineering, consult fees, etc. Then the park paid out the trades...footers, erectors, plumbing, electrical and so on.

But did the park take out a loan for the projected depreciation of the coaster? Did they have $30m sitting around for the project in an interest bearing account?

So with AF1, what if RMC took the balance owed from Fun spot to their assumed creditors, worked it out with Six Flags and Fun spot to make that the purchase price ( just for numbers sake, say 8m) and gave six flags a substantial discount for fees to move it and reassemble with modifications?

Steele Vengeance has been an expensive coaster to maintain from what I hear. The carpenters are constantly replacing wood due to the stresses. I've heard Railblazer was problematic ( and Fiesta Texas had to close theirs for quite a while for modifications). So Cedar Fair wasn't happy with the company. AF1 is a completely steel coaster, so even with relocation, it's likely to be less problematic than those two. Hence, a good chance for RMC to attempt to work on the relationship.

I always wondered how the actual structure held up to all of those unusual elements and the stress of the forces required to go through them. That's interesting.

The second coaster in the survey matches the stats for ArieForce One.

25 minutes ago, DiamondbackFan said:

The second coaster in the survey matches the stats for ArieForce One.

Interesting choices they have...

I confess... having a custom Vekoma tilt in The Vortex plot would be pretty scenic. And also probably way too expensive to build...

With Holiday World only 3-4 hours away I think a "Halloween" themed area would not be a great idea. Also wouldn't really match the aesthetic of Kings Island's current "themed" areas...

EDIT: I suppose they're referring to the Banshee area for Halloween retheme of Action Zone?

27 minutes ago, DiamondbackFan said:

A new horror theme area at Kings Island. Guys Action Zone might be finally getting a retheme it deserved.

13 minutes ago, Cedar Fair Fanboy said:

A new horror theme area at Kings Island. Guys Action Zone might be finally getting a retheme it deserved.

You could be on to somethng actually with The Bat,Drop Tower they could have eye of the dragon open year round....

I like the idea for a new themed area for Action Zone, but would a Halloween theme be it, we have Halloween Haunt already.. Someone said on YouTube that Kings Island/SF could make a deal with Hasbro to bring Dungeons and Dragons, bringing that type of themed area to the park, that would be popular imo.

I would take the Halloween themed area over anything the park could ever add, by an enormous amount. I now will never be able to enjoy the park until that happens.

9 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

What seems most likely to me is that SF has a very short list of places where the ride would be a good fit and can be installed, in terms of available space, justified ROI, etc., (they wouldn't have purchased the ride without such a list, obviously) and is working down that list to confirm the best fit. In other words, they aren't yet certain where the ride will go.

A better summation of my thoughts exactly. I think the chain has a list of places that it could go, with one of those being a fallback spot that would require little-to-no modifications. From now until (presumably) December they'll send out surveys and gauge interest for which park might want it most.

The surveys that are going out right now are very interesting to me because of how they each seem to have a few vague-ish options alongside Arieforce One. For the Kings Island survey I'd rank it as 1) Tilt Coaster, 2) Halloween Area, 3) Single Rail Coaster, 4) Arieforce One. I really just don't want it at KI. I did find it odd that they would suggest a generally Halloween-themed area considering the fact that Holiday World already has theirs about three hours away. I'd be more open to a more medieval-ish area (called Knightly Kingdom in my headcanon). The tilt coaster would be nice if it actually broke some records and isn't just the "longest coaster in the Cincinnati area with a twister layout" or something like that.