Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[rlentless]

I wonder if they could move the drone pad to one of the grassy areas behind ET next to either BLC or Diamonback.  The obvious problem with that is they would have to put up a large fence around them to look at.

[medford]

If Coney mall did a get a big revamp, it would likely include a bunch of the Carnival type games and maybe the arcade.  Anyone have any insight into how much revenue is generated at the arcade and carnival games?  Seems like both are usually pretty quit, though I suspect the upkeep and maintenance, especially on the carnival games is pretty low.  Since both of these are often staples at other parks, how could KI incorporate those better?  Would a sit down dining area be worthwhile in this area?  Already have the BBQ place not to mention the diner, skyline, etc...

Could flats be added in place of some of the games?  Coney seems to have stayed largely the same since the parks opening, with slight changes every few years that bleed over thru the memory of time and keeps the area "same as it ever was" even if the changes and updates are indeed happening.  Vortex was the last big thing to really hit that walkway (though one could argue the stunt coaster invades on the ambiance) in 30+ years.  A Vortex replacement would be the perfect opportunity for a huge facelift across the entire coney main street.

[WoodVengeance]

55 minutes ago, medford said:

 Vortex was the last big thing to really hit that walkway (though one could argue the stunt coaster invades on the ambiance) in 30+ years.  A Vortex replacement would be the perfect opportunity for a huge facelift across the entire coney main street.

Although it isn't technically a Coney Mall addition, I would argue Orion's prescence behind The Racer has impacted Coney Mall quite a lot, especially towards the back of the midway where if you're walking in by BLSC and Jukebox Diner, the lift hill is right there in your face. But if we're counting just Coney Mall attractions, I would say the biggest changes to that area in recent years were mainly Vortex getting removed, KMAA and the repaint of Racer.

[johnjniehaus]

Coney Mall is one of my personal favorite sections of the park and I of course want a very special coaster to take plot formerly occupied by Vortex.

While I know the park would never do it, I'd totally go for a rebranding of the area back to "Old Coney". Put a skyride down the middle of the mall and add another classic flat (Trabaunt please!) and maybe a Ferris Wheel (I still say someone needs to revive those double and triple wheels) Then have a Mack or Vekoma in The Vortex plot with retro vibes and elements. That boomerang element near the walkway is an absolute must to pay tribute to The Vortex. 

[medford]

2 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

Although it isn't technically a Coney Mall addition, I would argue Orion's prescence behind The Racer has impacted Coney Mall quite a lot, especially towards the back of the midway where if you're walking in by BLSC and Jukebox Diner, the lift hill is right there in your face. But if we're counting just Coney Mall attractions, I would say the biggest changes to that area in recent years were mainly Vortex getting removed, KMAA and the repaint of Racer.

I thought about including Orion, because as you say, it def changed the skyline (Dinosaurs Alive didn't change the skyline but its entrance was a part of Coney for a bit).  However, I was thinking more along the feel of the Coney Mall strip/street.  Lots of subtle changes like the addition of the BBQ restaurant, repainting of The Racers, lighting packages for Monster, Scrambler and Shake Rattle and Roll, but all the changes have been relatively small (even the addition/subtraction of rides like Flight Commander in the grand scheme.  The addition of Vortex and the subtraction of Vortex is pretty much it as far as big changes go, at least that I can think of to the feel of Coney.  WindSeeker looms over the place, but sits at the end, kind of tucked away and doesn't really feel like part of Coney to me (kind of like Days of thunder and Flight of Fear never did/have.

It feels like its always been leave Oktoberfest, pass under the Coney Sign (why get rid of that?) racers on the left, retail on the right.  Food establishments then flats then games (arcade or other wise) followed by flats, food establishments and Vortex.  Kind of a roller coaster sandwich.  A new, crowd drawing roller coaster (Vortex became too violent for many, including myself in his later days, though i still adored it) could be the spring board to a big change for the area.  Lots of flats or a new restaurant, different, modern games that feel like they draw crowds in, etc...

I guess my hope, is that there may become a describable image in our head of what Coney meant/feel like.  A time during Vortex and a time post Vortex.

[SmartCat7162]

16 minutes ago, medford said:

It feels like its always been leave Oktoberfest, pass under the Coney Sign (why get rid of that?

Does anyone know when that sign disappeared was it due to construction and just never put back or one season was it just gone?

[beastfan11]

16 minutes ago, SmartCat7162 said:

Does anyone know when that sign disappeared was it due to construction and just never put back or one season was it just gone?

Can’t confirm, but I remember reading here that it was a result of parade floats not being able to pass under. Lame. 

[WoodVengeance]

Going back on-topic to what kind of ride I could see going in The Vortex plot, I find it interesting that out of all the Six Flags parks that have put out surveys over the past several months, Kings Island was the only park that I'm aware of that put out two different surveys as opposed to just one. Interestingly, the second survey had an option for a 10-inversion Infinity coaster that I believe did not appear on any surveys from the other parks. I think a Gerstlauer Infinity on The Vortex plot would fit pretty nicely there, though if Kings Island wanted to get something more unique while also delivering a similar ride experience to that of an Infinity coaster, I feel a Mack Stryker would be an absolutely incredible fit for that plot of land. It would be the first-of-its-kind in North America and the park could still go for 10 inversions if they wanted to. However, it would likely be more expensive compared to a Gerstlauer Infinity so I could see the park continue to go in that direction if they don't want to spend $25+ million on a Mack Stryker.

Whatever the case, I hope we'll get our answer soon if the park indeed is planning to put something in that plot for 2026 so we can put these kinds of discussions behind us. Though I'm aware speculation like this won't end with The Vortex replacement and there will continue to be speculation for future additions even beyond that, like Action Zone for example.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Haunt still has a couple more weekends left and Winterfest hasn't even started yet and I'm already looking forward to opening day next year and (fingers crossed) the kickoff of Decoding 2026!

[CoasterJack]

1 hour ago, WoodVengeance said:

Going back on-topic to what kind of ride I could see going in The Vortex plot, I find it interesting that out of all the Six Flags parks that have put out surveys over the past several months, Kings Island was the only park that I'm aware of that put out two different surveys as opposed to just one. Interestingly, the second survey had an option for a 10-inversion Infinity coaster that I believe did not appear on any surveys from the other parks. I think a Gerstlauer Infinity on The Vortex plot would fit pretty nicely there, though if Kings Island wanted to get something more unique while also delivering a similar ride experience to that of an Infinity coaster, I feel a Mack Stryker would be an absolutely incredible fit for that plot of land. It would be the first-of-its-kind in North America and the park could still go for 10 inversions if they wanted to. However, it would likely be more expensive compared to a Gerstlauer Infinity so I could see the park continue to go in that direction if they don't want to spend $25+ million on a Mack Stryker.

Whatever the case, I hope we'll get our answer soon if the park indeed is planning to put something in that plot for 2026 so we can put these kinds of discussions behind us. Though I'm aware speculation like this won't end with The Vortex replacement and there will continue to be speculation for future additions even beyond that, like Action Zone for example.

Something even similar to Voltron but themed to something retro with a Batwing near the path sounds like a dream come true

[Orion742]

3 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

Going back on-topic to what kind of ride I could see going in The Vortex plot, I find it interesting that out of all the Six Flags parks that have put out surveys over the past several months, Kings Island was the only park that I'm aware of that put out two different surveys as opposed to just one. Interestingly, the second survey had an option for a 10-inversion Infinity coaster that I believe did not appear on any surveys from the other parks. I think a Gerstlauer Infinity on The Vortex plot would fit pretty nicely there, though if Kings Island wanted to get something more unique while also delivering a similar ride experience to that of an Infinity coaster, I feel a Mack Stryker would be an absolutely incredible fit for that plot of land. It would be the first-of-its-kind in North America and the park could still go for 10 inversions if they wanted to. However, it would likely be more expensive compared to a Gerstlauer Infinity so I could see the park continue to go in that direction if they don't want to spend $25+ million on a Mack Stryker.

Whatever the case, I hope we'll get our answer soon if the park indeed is planning to put something in that plot for 2026 so we can put these kinds of discussions behind us. Though I'm aware speculation like this won't end with The Vortex replacement and there will continue to be speculation for future additions even beyond that, like Action Zone for example.

A 10 inversion Mack Stryker coaster would be insane. I also believe it would be a perfect fit for KI and The Vortex plot of land. It would give us another coaster with inversions that we really need and a modern launch coaster. Personally I believe we need a signature standout top 10 worthy coaster (our Fury 325 or our Steel Vengeance for example). I think a Mack Stryker coaster would be that elite coaster we need. The way Orion preformed costing $30 million I don’t think the park should be afraid to spend if that means getting an elite coaster. Also I can’t confirm this because it is a rumor but I’ve heard CF spent $50 million on TT2 so maybe they’re not concerned about the price If it means they’ll see a return on investment.

[Orion-XL200]

23 hours ago, Tr0y said:

 Markers found so far in Coney Mall or adjacent area (marked by red dot):

Thanks for doing this! While I enjoy the close perspective photos with description, I really like seeing it overhead where you've found these. As @disco2000 said, maybe new bars? 

Could the markers be where site lines are surveyed? Are there any near/around I-Street at all? 

7 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

Coney Mall is one of my personal favorite sections of the park and I of course want a very special coaster to take plot formerly occupied by Vortex.

While I know the park would never do it, I'd totally go for a rebranding of the area back to "Old Coney". Put a skyride down the middle of the mall and add another classic flat (Trabaunt please!) and maybe a Ferris Wheel (I still say someone needs to revive those double and triple wheels) Then have a Mack or Vekoma in The Vortex plot with retro vibes and elements. That boomerang element near the walkway is an absolute must to pay tribute to The Vortex. 

Coney is one of my favorite areas of the 2 big Ohio parks. The only thing I really don't like is where Killmart is, leading to the back of Windeseeker/Action Theater. It just feels dull once you pass Zephyr. Yeah KMAA opened the area a bit more, I don't feel like there's a spectacle in terms of what we see. The Killmart building IMO needs refreshed/brightened or razed, a new record breaking coaster (that provides midway excitement) plopped in Vortex's former home, the WindSeeker Plaza (in front of and behind) needs refreshed to be more welcoming and open. 

 

[WoodVengeance]

I would also still love to see a Mack Extreme Spinner come to The Vortex plot as well, though I am concerned if a portion of the general public is put off by a spinning coaster, especially one that has launches and inversions. If the park is looking at Mack for their next coaster, then I think it would be safer to build a Mack Stryker and market it as a first-of-its-kind coaster in North America and the most inversions of any coaster in North America (10). If Cedar Point really wants to, they could build a Mack Extreme Spinner for themselves, that way it's a win-win for both Ohio parks. Though I do admit a lot of this is just wishful thinking.

For all we know, it might not even be a Mack and it could be a Gerstlauer or B&M. Heck, we might not even get a new coaster in 2026, we'll just have to wait and see how things play out over the next several months. I imagine we'll know pretty early in the 2025 season if there's a coaster coming in 2026 by means of land clearing, blueprints or anything else of the sort. Also, I'm probably going to make a coaster concept for The Vortex plot over the next several days, and it will likely be my last concept for that plot. (which I've done several of over the past five years, so I'll be sure to give my best effort for this final concept)

[Orion742]

25 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

I would also still love to see a Mack Extreme Spinner come to The Vortex plot as well, though I am concerned if a portion of the general public is put off by a spinning coaster, especially one that has launches and inversions. If the park is looking at Mack for their next coaster, then I think it would be safer to build a Mack Stryker and market it as a first-of-its-kind coaster in North America and the most inversions of any coaster in North America (10). If Cedar Point really wants to, they could build a Mack Extreme Spinner for themselves, that way it's a win-win for both Ohio parks. Though I do admit a lot of this is just wishful thinking.

For all we know, it might not even be a Mack and it could be a Gerstlauer or B&M. Heck, we might not even get a new coaster in 2026, we'll just have to wait and see how things play out over the next several months. I imagine we'll know pretty early in the 2025 season if there's a coaster coming in 2026 by means of land clearing, blueprints or anything else of the sort. Also, I'm probably going to make a coaster concept for The Vortex plot over the next several days, and it will likely be my last concept for that plot. (which I've done several of over the past five years, so I'll be sure to give my best effort for this final concept)

I agree. Personally I’d rather see a Mack Xtreme spinner but that’s unlikely considering the guests might not enjoy the spinning aspect. And Mike Koontz may not be a fan of it as well. A Mack Stryker is my #2 choice and I think makes more sense for KI overall than an Xtreme spinner. I think they could easily make it very different experience from Maverick 3 hours north. Time will tell. I’m very intrigued to see what this off-season has in store for us. Also I know being able to run a new coaster during WinterFest would be huge for the park. Mack coasters and the Stryker coaster can run in lower temperatures and especially if they keep it low to the ground.

[WoodVengeance]

1 minute ago, Orion742 said:

I agree. Personally I’d rather see a Mack Xtreme spinner but that’s unlikely considering the guests might not enjoy the spinning aspect. And Mike Koontz may not be a fan of it as well. A Mack Stryker is my #2 choice and I think makes more sense for KI overall than an Xtreme spinner. I think they could easily make it very different experience from Maverick 3 hours north. Time will tell. I’m very intrigued to see what this off-season has in store for us. Also I know being able to run a new coaster during WinterFest would be huge for the park. Mack coasters and the Stryker coaster can run in lower temperatures and especially if they keep it low to the ground.

I believe Carowinds runs Copperhead Strike during Winterfest from what I've seen online. However, it is in a different climate so not sure if that would apply here if we were to get a Mack.

[Orion742]

16 hours ago, Orion742 said:

A 10 inversion Mack Stryker coaster would be insane. I also believe it would be a perfect fit for KI and The Vortex plot of land. It would give us another coaster with inversions that we really need and a modern launch coaster. Personally I believe we need a signature standout top 10 worthy coaster (our Fury 325 or our Steel Vengeance for example). I think a Mack Stryker coaster would be that elite coaster we need. The way Orion preformed costing $30 million I don’t think the park should be afraid to spend if that means getting an elite coaster. Also I can’t confirm this because it is a rumor but I’ve heard CF spent $50 million on TT2 so maybe they’re not concerned about the price If it means they’ll see a return on investment.

Also I wanted to point out, it wouldn’t be as hard as you think to make a 10 inversion Mack Stryker coaster. Let’s take a look at Voltron, it already has 7 inversions. It has a non inverted Immelmann. If you change that to a regular Immelmann that’s inversion number 8. It also has a top hat. If you change that into an inverted top hat that’s inversion number 9. There is also an over bank turn. If that is rotated a bit more it can turn into a cutback making 10 inversions.

12 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

I believe Carowinds runs Copperhead Strike during Winterfest from what I've seen online. However, it is in a different climate so not sure if that would apply here if we were to get a Mack.

I believe Mack’s temperature requirement for their launch coasters just like Intamin’s is rather low. In the single digits. The biggest concern is not about temperatures it’s about if the trains will valley throughout the course. Keeping it low to the ground just like Voltron would make low temperature operations possible. That’s also the reason Mystic Timbers runs during WinterFest. Another concern would be off-season maintenance. If they can take about half the amount of trains off for WinterFest I think it would still be able to run successfully.

[WoodVengeance]

19 minutes ago, Orion742 said:

Also I wanted to point out, it wouldn’t be as hard as you think to make a 10 inversion Mack Stryker coaster. Let’s take a look at Voltron, it already has 7 inversions. It has a non inverted Immelmann. If you change that to a regular Immelmann that’s inversion number 8. It also has a top hat. If you change that into an inverted top hat that’s inversion number 9. There is also an over bank turn. If that is rotated a bit more it can turn into a cutback making 10 inversions.

I believe Mack’s temperature requirement for their launch coasters just like Intamin’s is rather low. In the single digits. The biggest concern is not about temperatures it’s about if the trains will valley throughout the course. Keeping it low to the ground just like Voltron would make low temperature operations possible. That’s also the reason Mystic Timbers runs during WinterFest. Another concern would be off-season maintenance. If they can take about half the amount of trains off for WinterFest I think it would still be able to run successfully.

The way I look at it is that the Mack Stryker was developed to be Mack's take on a Gerstlauer Infinity. If they can do 14 inversions on a Gerstlauer Infinity, then it shouldn't be difficult to do 10 on a Mack Stryker.

[BeeastFarmer]

3 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

The way I look at it is that the Mack Stryker was developed to be Mack's take on a Gerstlauer Infinity. If they can do 14 inversions on a Gerstlauer Infinity, then it shouldn't be difficult to do 10 on a Mack Stryker.

The current President and GM of KI has a stated goal of making KI family friendly.  I don't know that a 10 inversion coaster would be seen as such in the eyes of the current administration. 

[WoodVengeance]

5 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

The current President and GM of KI has a stated goal of making KI family friendly.  I don't know that a 10 inversion coaster would be seen as such in the eyes of the current administration. 

The park is currently going three years in a row of adding new family attractions to Adventure Port, Camp Snoopy and next year with Soak City. When the park stated they are going to make the park family friendly, I don't think that means they're going to completely alienate the thrill market entirely. After all, the reason I'm even talking about a 10-inversion coaster for Kings Island is because the park itself did include it as an option on one of their surveys.

[BeeastFarmer]

1 minute ago, WoodVengeance said:

The park is currently going three years in a row of adding new family attractions to Adventure Port, Camp Snoopy and next year with Soak City. When the park stated they are going to make the park family friendly, I don't think that means they're going to completely alienate the thrill market entirely. After all, the reason I'm even talking about a 10-inversion coaster for Kings Island is because the park itself did include it as an option on one of their surveys.

I mean, Orion is designed a family friendly coaster pet the GM/VP.

Haunt is family friendly. 

Everything he has done in recent years, besides all of this years bars, is family friendly. 

[WoodVengeance]

6 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I mean, Orion is designed a family friendly coaster pet the GM/VP.

Haunt is family friendly. 

Everything he has done in recent years, besides all of this years bars, is family friendly. 

So if we were to enter this mindset for our next major coaster, thrill coasters should still be on the table if he considers Orion to be a family-friendly addition. Would that make it more likely that we could see another B&M since the rides they put out are more on the graceful side? Or perhaps a Vekoma launch coaster since those have a lower height requirement (A.K.A. more family friendly). We'll probably just have to wait and see what happens.