Wolfpack building activity

[Bwb.32]

6 hours ago, beastfan11 said:

I hope they bulldoze that station and all of the rumors surrounding it. 

 

2 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

I've accepted that all conversations on this site will always lead to Son of Beast, if given enough time and enough people participating.

I thought we'd eventually someday escape this Groundhog's Day scenario and settle into a The Bat-pre-2014 level of discussion about it, but then apparently someone on Six Flags's creative team decided this year that they hate me.

On the other hand of the coin,

I personally could honestly give a hoot about a vekoma madhouse, or the crypt building being used.

We're all entitled to enjoy the themes, lore, history, and excitement of speculation about what we each personally enjoy.

There's a whole thread for TRTR/The Crypt speculation if that's what you desire to speculate about, in fact, that's the thread that inspired my post here, but you see I brought that speculation here and made my post in this thread, because it keeps it sperated into a thread, where if you desire to see such topics, you'll know what you're clicking into.

Absolutely no need to come over here and bash a separate thread of speculation from what you desire to see happen.

Secondhand, these comments do not contribute to the intent and purpose of this thread, and are nothing more than clutter now.

Ya know for some of us, Son of Beast holds a special part in hearts.

I personally grew up intimidated by that monstrous structure, always hearing stories of what awaited behind that giant lift structure. It was like myth to me then.

By the time I was finally tall enough to ride it, the loop had been removed, and it was on its way out, unintentionally, my first and only ride on Son of Beast, was on its unexpected final day of operations.

So yeah, it's got a special place with me, and if love to see something happen with what was, and in my opinion still would be a killer marketing strategy.

[TombRaiderFTW]

For what it's worth, I don't want to talk about The Crypt's building. I wish they'd demolish it, too.

I apologize that I made you feel attacked for being interested in Son of Beast. That wasn't my intent, but I get where it would have seemed that way.

The point I was going for is solely that this path of reviving old attractions is getting tiresome, and that's not specific to you. I don't want The Crypt back, and I don't want Son of Beast back. Son of Beast seems to lead the charge on people skyrocketing their expectations anytime anything remotely related pops up, and that's been true since 2009. And then those expectations don't work out and everyone starts yelling at each other.

The cycle seems endless, and it's making it hard to want to be here. Which sucks, because I really enjoy the community here when it isn't all, "Valleyfair tweeted something with the number 5 in it, Son of Beast was Outpost 5, RMC Son of Beast is coming back next year and I'm right or else!"

[Bwb.32]

entirely valid, it does get tiresome, at least for myself,

ive never put too much weight into any of the potential revivals, even when the silly rumors started around top gun being rethemed to "The (og) Bat" ive been more interested in simply documenting the goings on that relate theme/lore wise to SOB, more so IF something happened, the community would have a good basis of documentation, and thought threads to run with, because im passionate about the history and future for the storyline that went along with it. 
bottom line is SOB (the ride itself) SUCKED, even without the loop, that thing beat the hell out of you, even as a young kid riding it being just barely tall enough, i got tossed and was definitely sore the next day

I've been at this for a hot minute, even before i found this place, and the wonderful community that exists here, so while id love to see it happen, in some form, even if its just utilizing the killer marketing and theming strategy, truthfully id just like to see the park add something cool and major that isn't another B&M, or another more traditional wooden coaster, (yes i would consider MT a more traditional wooden coaster)

[Tr0y]

I think the crypt building is prime real-estate for a Diet Coke factory. 

[Bwb.32]

20 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

I think the crypt building is prime real-estate for a Diet Coke factory. 

I gotta ask what the diet Coke bit is about lmao, im so lost 

[BlondyRidesOn]

If there is a coaster planned for Outpost 5, I think reviving the name Son of Beast or alluding to The Beast name is not the way to go. The only Beast that should prowl Kings Island is the large Carter era woodie in the back of Rivertown (As well as maybe Woodstock Express being renamed to The Beastie again, though that's unlikely). That being said, they can still use Outpost 5 and the legend of Sonny as a theme. 

As for the coaster model, this would fit a B&M Giga Dive Machine. Imagine a holding brake and release as high as the Eiffel Tower. That could be extremely marketable. They could even have it do a fly though element through the Outpost 5 station. My reasoning for the marketability of a Giga Dive is anecdotal. Several years back, my cousins were discussing a trip they took to Tampa for a football game. While on that trip, they visited Busch Gardens Tampa and rode Sheikra. They thought Sheikra was one of the coolest roller coasters they had ever been on. Fast forward to a few years ago. I stumbled upon one of those common roller coaster posts on Facebook with the caption "Would YOU ride this???" that we all have seen before. The image was of Yukon Striker at Canada's Wonderland, the animated rendering from 2018 when it was announced. One of my cousins tagged the other and commented "We rode this! This is in Tampa!" With Valravn, another B&M Dive just up the road in the same state, there are still plenty of people who see any Dive Coaster and think it is the exact one they rode when visiting Florida or Virginia. While another B&M might seem like too much, my mind thinks about that post and says "Imagine what my two cousins reactions would be if a bigger Sheikra were built just within driving distance?"

As for RMC, I don't think Kings Island would need to go hyper hybrid. Any park that adds an RMC will be an enthusiast Mecca and will still be adding a standout attraction without it being a record breaker. With the closure of Cincinnati's Coney Island last year, an all steel RMC I-box, painted white and built up like a classic traditional wooden coaster, around the size of Arieforce One at Fun Spot Atlanta, would be a fantastic addition to The Vortex spot. I know there are a few people who want to see that back half of Coney Mall to be themed to a new area of the park to coincide with a new coaster, but I'm not one of them. The Vortex replacement should be built to fit in with the traditional amusement park midway theme of Coney Mall, maybe with an old school art deco station. Perhaps revive the Shooting Star name, complete with an intense helix at the end much like the old Star at Coney (The final helix on that ride became inspiration for the final helix on The Beast). 

Those are my two cents.

 

[DispatchMaster]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dive coaster as high as the ET would be about 40% taller (!!!) than the two tallest dive coasters yet (Valravn & Yukon Striker). The only place a dive coaster of that height is likely to be built is Saudi Arabia. It's just too expensive.

[ShedTreeBoi1]

2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dive coaster as high as the ET would be about 40% taller (!!!) than the two tallest dive coasters yet (Valravn & Yukon Striker). The only place a dive coaster of that height is likely to be built is Saudi Arabia. It's just too expensive.

315ish feet is not THAT crazy of a height.

[Kenban]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dive coaster as high as the ET would be about 40% taller (!!!) than the two tallest dive coasters yet (Valravn & Yukon Striker). The only place a dive coaster of that height is likely to be built is Saudi Arabia. It's just too expensive.

Realistically only the lift hill, and maybe the first element or two will come close to that height.  The extra cost is likely not as much as you might think.  The track length on dive coasters is typically much shorter, the longest dive is only 3625 feet long.  Rumor was Valravn was only around $20 million total.  It would be an expensive coaster but a giga dive would likely not be any more expensive than Orion, or plenty of other coasters that Cedar Fair has built and I am betting cheaper than many.  My guess is a giga dive, with the world’s largest vertical loop, worlds longest dive (track length), etc, would only be between $25 and 30 million.  Likely a cheap way to build a massive signature ride.  I am positive the new Six Flags will build one, the question is where.

[WoodVengeance]

51 minutes ago, Kenban said:

Realistically only the lift hill, and maybe the first element or two will come close to that height.  The extra cost is likely not as much as you might think.  The track length on dive coasters is typically much shorter, the longest dive is only 3625 feet long.  Rumor was Valravn was only around $20 million total.  It would be an expensive coaster but a giga dive would likely not be any more expensive than Orion, or plenty of other coasters that Cedar Fair has built and I am betting cheaper than many.  My guess is a giga dive, with the world’s largest vertical loop, worlds longest dive (track length), etc, would only be between $25 and 30 million.  Likely a cheap way to build a massive signature ride.  I am positive the new Six Flags will build one, the question is where.

If I were to guess, either Magic Mountain or Carowinds.

[DispatchMaster]

The taller the coaster, the larger every element needs to be to stay within comfortable G-force range. The larger each element is, the more steel is required. And steel is expensive.

38 minutes ago, Kenban said:

It would be an expensive coaster but a giga dive would likely not be any more expensive than Orion.

Have you ever wondered why there are so few coasters taller than ~300 feet? It's because it gets stupid expensive very fast to build even a narrow gauge (e.g. Orion/Leviathan) coaster at that scale.

It may be hard to tell without looking at them side-by-side, but dive coaster track is a lot larger than traditional track. The rails are set wider to accommodate 8- or 10-across trains, so that means more massive ribs, and the spine is wider/thicker as well, since the moment about the track axis is much greater compared to sit-down coasters. And then of course the support columns need to be sized up to support the static weight of the track.

All of this adds up to a very difficult ROI case for a dive coaster of that size.

One constant in the enthusiast community is how freely folks are willing to spend park operators money, as if it were RCT in sandbox mode. In the real world, where budgets exist, things are more complicated.

[Kenban]

9 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

All of this adds up to a very difficult ROI case for a dive coaster of that size.

One constant in the enthusiast community is how freely folks are willing to spend park operators money, as if it were RCT in sandbox mode. In the real world, where budgets exist, things are more complicated.

What matters is the engineering done by B&M, and the financial analysis by Six Flags.  Both of which appears to have been done and at this point Six Flags appears to be trying to figure out where to build it.  So far this year before the merger, Cedar Fair, and now after the merger, Six Flags, have included a giga dive coaster on 3 separate coaster surveys, maybe more that I am not aware of.  The three that I know of are Kings Island, Carowinds, and more recently Magic Mountain, all had pass holders asked their feelings about building a giga dive.  The fact that corporate keeps asking, suggests they know how much it will cost and are comfortable paying for it.  Obviously the rides in a survey may never be built, but it’s also not common for the same ride to be asked about over and over again like this.

The merged company is largely run by the old Cedar Fair management and a giga dive is basically the exact type of ride the pre merger Cedar Fair would build.

[DispatchMaster]

5 hours ago, Kenban said:

...they know how much it will cost and are comfortable paying for it.

To be fair, if they were comfortable paying for it, they wouldn't be gauging interest in it. If they were comfortable with paying for it, they'd just build it. But they need to gauge interest to determine whether or not there's a financial case to be made.

6 hours ago, Kenban said:

...a giga dive is basically the exact type of ride the pre merger Cedar Fair would build.

So why haven't they built any? They had opportunities, specifically at CP or CW, but instead chose considerably smaller versions, even at Cedar Point, the so-called favorite child of the chain that gets all the best stuff.

Now, this is not to say they absolutely would never build a dive machine that tall. But considering that every added foot to a coaster's height has diminishing returns - guests/riders can't distinguish between 299' and 301', nor can they readily distinguish between 301' and 315' - parks have to ask themselves how much value there is in the marketability of a 301' ride versus a 299' ride. And even if we assume that extra 2' might be justifiable in terms of ROI, going a further 14' isn't necessarily a slam dunk.

[Kenban]

6 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

So why haven't they built any? They had opportunities, specifically at CP or CW, but instead chose considerably smaller versions, even at Cedar Point, the so-called favorite child of the chain that gets all the best stuff.

Space constraints, the rides still have to fit around existing infrastructure.  Rob Decker literally discussed trying to fit in a bigger ride, and they could not make it work. Yukon Striker was designed for that drop through Vortex, and everything has to line up to make that possible.  Doing the design of YS is what made them realize they could cram a dive coaster at Cedar Point in a difficult to fill space they had been trying to use for years.  The high water table due to the lake means tunnels are out at Cedar Point, and Valravn is stuck between the road and the midway, anything bigger and it would stick out into the midway.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Please no dive coaster. I don't want a one trick pony gimmick here. If they're going to somehow reuse the SOB station, an RMC hybrid or a Gravity Group/GCI woodie would be the best fit as that station was build specifically for a wooden structure.

[WoodVengeance]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Please no dive coaster. I don't want a one trick pony gimmick here. If they're going to somehow reuse the SOB station, an RMC hybrid or a Gravity Group/GCI woodie would be the best fit as that station was build specifically for a wooden structure.

I agree that Kings Island doesn't really need a dive coaster. Personally, I feel if Kings Island were going to go with the route of a ground-up RMC or Gravity Group/GCI, it would be best for it to have a steel structure as opposed to a wooden one (see Arieforce One or The Voyage) That way there shouldn't be as many structural issues compared to if they kept the structure wooden. I know that's been one of the primary issues plaguing Steel Vengeance since a lot of the structure for that was reused from Mean Streak.

[DonHelbig]

There's a better chance of the Menendez brothers being released from prison than there is of Son of Beast coming back. 

[Bwb.32]

Well, RMC is back at it again lol:
 

[beastfan11]

Doesn’t that pretty much confirm this isn’t happening? I wonder if that means they had proposals to overhaul the ride before it was demolished. 

[WoodVengeance]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:08 PM, beastfan11 said:

Doesn’t that pretty much confirm this isn’t happening? I wonder if that means they had proposals to overhaul the ride before it was demolished. 

My thoughts exactly. If RMC was actually contracted to work on a new project for Kings Island, wouldn't there be a non-disclosure agreement that would prevent them from making posts like this before a potential ride announcement?

[beastfan11]

48 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

My thoughts exactly. If RMC was actually contracted to work on a new project for Kings Island, wouldn't there be a non-disclosure agreement that would prevent them from making posts like this before a potential ride announcement?

No way knowing for sure, but I can’t imagine they would be happy if that were the case. So I’d assume there would be some kind of NDA-like agreement in place. 

[WoodVengeance]

I'm bringing these up because I know they were brought up in past discussions. I can confirm that the eternal flame for Son of Beast in Banshee's queue was lit as of tonight. Also, there was no visible light coming from the casket in front of the Son of Beast grave.

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

18 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

I'm bringing these up because I know they were brought up in past discussions. I can confirm that the eternal flame for Son of Beast in Banshee's queue was lit as of tonight. Also, there was no visible light coming from the casket in front of the Son of Beast grave.

Probably because the bulb is dead.

[BeeastFarmer]

5 minutes ago, Cedar Fair Fanboy said:

Probably because the bulb is dead.

Just like Son of Beast.

 

[DonHelbig]

If the issues plaguing Top Thrill 2 cannot be resolved, what goes down as the bigger failure: Son of Beast or Top Thrill 2? 

[beastfan11]

On 9/27/2024 at 3:28 PM, DonHelbig said:

There's a better chance of the Menendez brothers being released from prison than there is of Son of Beast coming back. 

You jinxed it! Ha! 
 

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/05/nx-s1-5140056/menendez-brothers-case-review-explained
 

 

[jbeast]

Don, My vote is for Son of Beast.

I am still hoping they figure out how to make Top Thrill 2 a reliable thrill machine. I loved Top Thrill's speed, so it would be amazing for them to figure it out.

Son of Beast was doomed from the beginning.  I so wanted to love that ride and was genuinely excited about it. But then I rode it. That's all that needs to be said...ha!

[FALLINLOVE09]

2 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

If the issues plaguing Top Thrill 2 cannot be resolved, what goes down as the bigger failure: Son of Beast or Top Thrill 2? 

My vote is Top Thrill 2 and here's my reasonings.

1. Son of Beast at the end of the day ran from 2000-2009. 10 seasons.

2. 2006 when the loop was causing problems, they removed it and the ride was back up and running again

3. Top Thrill 2 is a reimagining of Top Thrill Dragster that was only open for what? 6 days? I got to ride TT2 twice with my wife, but most of us haven't gotten a chance to ride. 

4. If TT2 was never to reopen and became a complete fail, then that means they wasted tons of money and others hopes and dreams to ride it and built the hype for this new attraction for nothing...

[WoodVengeance]

4 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

If the issues plaguing Top Thrill 2 cannot be resolved, what goes down as the bigger failure: Son of Beast or Top Thrill 2? 

If it doesn't reopen, Top Thrill 2 easily. Say what you want about Son of Beast, but at least that was open for more than a week.

I'm at least hopeful Cedar Point and Zamperla can get Top Thrill 2 fixed for 2025, so it's smooth sailing from there, but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[silver2005]

As bad as the TTD incident was, Son of Beast had way more of them (not just limited to the 2006 and 2009 incidents), so its SOB being worst by a mile.  TTD had a far better safety record. 

RCCA were complete frauds in my book.   I actually respect Intamin and Zamperla.  They've done good work aside from TT2.  All of RCCA's coasters are/were garbage. 

I should also correct something- the loop on SOB wasn't the problem.  The 2006 incident happened in the first helix and part of it was lighter trains that made the track flex less, but the lighter Gerstlauer trains that replaced the heavier Premier trains weren't approved to do loops and probably couldn't due to the lack of weight.