Rides Department Budget Cuts

[disco2000]

50 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

It looks like 6 passenger car operation to me:

Maybe they learned from yesterday lol

[SonofBaconator]

I wonder how a 9:30 firework show would fare if the park remained open from 10-10.

[Coastercrush]

11 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I wonder how a 9:30 firework show would fare if the park remained open from 10-10.

Kings dominion had fireworks around 7 pm a few summers ago

[super7]

12 hours ago, silver2005 said:

I went on a slow Monday and they I never saw them not race. 

Maybe you hit a lucky day.    I have been there approximately 20 times over the last three years and seen it racing about five days out of those visits.

[Orion-XL200]

On 7/19/2023 at 8:39 AM, teenageninja said:

Everyone blasting the communications department, but this was likely an Operations move.  They have goals and targets for the year and they obviously are over their budget, this is a way for them to get back under budget by slashing hours on rides that have poor ridership during these times.

I'd imagine you'll notice the park looking dirtier as well, because they probably slashed hours in Park Services as well.

You'll notice the midways being less clean....they've stopped running the water truck (which sprays midways in the morning to get all the gunk off) everyday and are doing it every other day. Likely will go to every 3 days or less.

[DJSkyFoxx]

2 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

You'll notice the midways being less clean....they've stopped running the water truck (which sprays midways in the morning to get all the gunk off) everyday and are doing it every other day. Likely will go to every 3 days or less.

Really saddened to hear this. I feel like KI always took pride in having a clean park so hearing this is disheartening. I would hate to see the midways not get cleaned after a super busy Saturday or after an event. Wow. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

3 hours ago, Orion-XL200 said:

You'll notice the midways being less clean....they've stopped running the water truck (which sprays midways in the morning to get all the gunk off) everyday and are doing it every other day. Likely will go to every 3 days or less.

This kind of cost-cutting is PATHETIC. It takes what… two guys to go around in the truck and spray down the midways? It’s stuff like spaying down the midways every morning that no guests noticed because the midways are always clean in the morning, but they may notice the lack of it now.

[robintodd]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

This kind of cost-cutting is PATHETIC. It takes what… two guys to go around in the truck and spray down the midways? It’s stuff like spaying down the midways every morning that no guests noticed because the midways are always clean in the morning, but they may notice the lack of it now.

There is also probably cost in solution/soap for the truck.  Just a guess.

[Taylor.B03]

I know a guy...

[jzarley]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:34 AM, BeeastFarmer said:

 But Disney and universal have other businesses in their portfolio to soften that blow.  Cedar Fair and their peer group don't. 

I do think that a competent Communication Director would be a major part of the solution in regards to weather, wildfire smoke and the other issues you mention:

Get guests in the turnstiles to enjoy world class indoor shows during this heat and haze.  We acknowledge that things are challenging with behavior today, that's why we have implemented the chaperone policy and publicize our security number. We want everyone to have a safe, good time....

I'm no wordsmith, but that is the job of one...to turn a negative into a positive and get more people in the park.  When your #1 guy isn't doing anything to drive attendance 

Unfortunately, those other businesses are struggling right now too—adjusted for inflation, box office revenue since the pandemic is currently about equal to what it was back in 1982. And, the WGA/SAG strikes mean nothing new is being produced which is going to cause downstream shortages of content later which will further restrict entertainment revenues.

I think the issue with theme parks right now (and, it seems across the board—from the destination resorts to the regional parks) is that there was a huge appetite to get out and go to the parks as soon as things reopened as the pandemic was waning. This also coincided with a time when cruises and other foreign travel was still restricted, so the domestic parks were the best and easiest options. The typical person doesn’t necessarily visit Disney, Universal, or even Cedar Fair or Six Flags parks every year so we may be in a lull of visits after the rushes over the past few years.

Anecdotally, I’ve heard that cruise traffic and European travel are up this summer as those options have become much more available, so that competition is likely challenging the parks right now too.

[Tr0y]

We’ve had budget cuts ever since we got that hand me down designed coaster from CGA. 

[BeeastFarmer]

51 minutes ago, jzarley said:

Unfortunately, those other businesses are struggling right now too—adjusted for inflation, box office revenue since the pandemic is currently about equal to what it was back in 1982. And, the WGA/SAG strikes mean nothing new is being produced which is going to cause downstream shortages of content later which will further restrict entertainment revenues.

I think the issue with theme parks right now (and, it seems across the board—from the destination resorts to the regional parks) is that there was a huge appetite to get out and go to the parks as soon as things reopened as the pandemic was waning. This also coincided with a time when cruises and other foreign travel was still restricted, so the domestic parks were the best and easiest options. The typical person doesn’t necessarily visit Disney, Universal, or even Cedar Fair or Six Flags parks every year so we may be in a lull of visits after the rushes over the past few years.

Anecdotally, I’ve heard that cruise traffic and European travel are up this summer as those options have become much more available, so that competition is likely challenging the parks right now too.

 But how does this explain pre pandemic demand?  Iirc, 2019 was a record breaker for Cedar Fair. 

[marineman]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:36 AM, BoddaH1994 said:

Calling it now. 9:00 closes Su-Thu next year. Fireworks Fridays and Saturdays. 

If this happens, I can say with 100% certainty that we will not renew our passes. We only go on weekdays on days when I'm able to cut out of work a little early. Losing an hour off our trips would render it a lost cause for us.

[disco2000]

3 hours ago, marineman said:

If this happens, I can say with 100% certainty that we will not renew our passes. We only go on weekdays on days when I'm able to cut out of work a little early. Losing an hour off our trips would render it a lost cause for us.

They won't make this decision until May 2024 after they have your money (or most people's money LOL) 

[BoddaH1994]

53 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

They won't make this decision until May 2024 after they have your money (or most people's money LOL) 

Terms are subject to change. No refunds. 

[disco2000]

8 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Terms are subject to change. No refunds. 

At least when other businesses change their terms mid-cycle, they send you an email or USPS letter informing you of the changes.  Not so much with CF...

[jzarley]

5 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

 But how does this explain pre pandemic demand?  Iirc, 2019 was a record breaker for Cedar Fair. 

It doesn’t explain it at all. I’m not sure we can relate current state to the normal pre-pandemic world. The industry has always had peaks and valleys, and 2019 seemed to be a normal peak (FWIW, the first few months of 2020–at least in Orlando-were starting really strong too.) Most economists predicted a mild recession setting in in later 2020, but of course that normal cyclical recession never occurred (which would have been a normal valley) because huge segments of the economy shut down suddenly, then restarted (not quite as suddenly, but still pretty quickly). 2020 really reset everything.

I can honestly say that the pandemic is easily the most disrupting event I’ve ever experienced in my 30 year career. I was working for one of the major park companies in 2020 (I’m working for my third park company now), and clearly remember Tuesday, 3/10/20. It was the day the NBA cancelled all upcoming games, and Disneyland announced it was closing temporarily. At the time I thought “oh, there’s no way the parks in Orlando would ever close.” Then, on that Thursday I was sitting in all day meetings and we were planning precisely that—shutting down all parks chain-wide and the logistics of how that would occur. I really don’t think anything about the business (or probably most hospitality businesses) has ever felt completely “normal” since.

[jdf21972]

We’ve had budget cuts ever since we got that hand me down designed coaster from CGA. 

And pretty soon going to get hand me down hours from CGA also.


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[IndyGuy4KI]

At the park now. Rode KMAA earlier. Only two poor ride ops running it. Loading only car at a time. I expect this operations at a Six or IB parks. I felt so bad for those two guys. They were doing awesome!

[Rallyomalley]

Went with my wife Thursday and noticed the following:

Beast - 1 load / 1 unload

DB - 1 load, 2 unload

Mystic Timbers - 1 load / 1 unload

Orion - 2 load / 1 unload

Banshee - 2 load/ 2 unload

AE - 1 train 

Ride op staffing levels are just pathetic now. Every coaster was stacked before the train in the station went out.

[Captain Nemo]

Hearing the pathetic staffing issues makes me (A Nevada native) not want to visit which I think is the opposite of what Cedar Fair wants to hear.

can anyone confirm if Knotts is staffing the same way? I certainly hope not because having to deal with SFMM operations and staffing is already one park too many!

[IBEW_Sparky]

6 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

At the park now. Rode KMAA earlier. Only two poor ride ops running it. Loading only car at a time. I expect this operations at a Six or IB parks. I felt so bad for those two guys. They were doing awesome!

These assclowns are even doing drastic SATURDAY staffing cuts now??  The people in the glass offices in Sandusky and Charlotte need to take the firearms out of their hands and quit shooting themselves in their overpaid feet, because that is exactly what their short term gain stupidity is akin to.  Ive already said pass renewal is at a tipping point for me, and there is absolutely no way I am alone in my thoughts on that, at least not in the World outside of fansites.

[IndyGuy4KI]

52 minutes ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

These assclowns are even doing drastic SATURDAY staffing cuts now??  The people in the glass offices in Sandusky and Charlotte need to take the firearms out of their hands and quit shooting themselves in their overpaid feet, because that is exactly what their short term gain stupidity is akin to.  Ive already said pass renewal is at a tipping point for me, and there is absolutely no way I am alone in my thoughts on that, at least not in the World outside of fansites.

One train OP at AE today. Saw Planet Snoopy rides closing at 9. Noticed the parking lot 2/3 full while riding Drop Tower. For the GP ticket buyers who dropped hundreds to get in the park today, not a good look for those families at all.

[TombRaiderFTW]

It's almost like, and hang with me here, the park needs to stop entirely catering to season passholders. This really only becomes acceptable if someone in charge goes, "Oh well, most people will just come back another day." As a Paramount Parks fan, I cannot begin to explain how much it pains me to compliment the Kinzel era, but this kind of stuff was basically unthinkable then, as far as I'm aware.

Ditch the constant nostalgia as a growth plan, ditch the meal plans, ditch the "tack on a million benefits to make the season pass experience what YOU want, even though we can't sustain our promises" model, get serious about the experimental food offerings, competitively pay your employees, and start running an amusement park again, instead of a large adult daycare with roller coasters.

[Captain Nemo]

1 hour ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

These assclowns are even doing drastic SATURDAY staffing cuts now??  The people in the glass offices in Sandusky and Charlotte need to take the firearms out of their hands and quit shooting themselves in their overpaid feet, because that is exactly what their short term gain stupidity is akin to.  Ive already said pass renewal is at a tipping point for me, and there is absolutely no way I am alone in my thoughts on that, at least not in the World outside of fansites.

In my adult years I’ve come to see how conservatively (from a corporate standpoint) the company is run.

[PKIVortex]

One train OP at AE today. Saw Planet Snoopy rides closing at 9. Noticed the parking lot 2/3 full while riding Drop Tower. For the GP ticket buyers who dropped hundreds to get in the park today, not a good look for those families at all.

AE has been 1 train for about a month? I heard FoF was one train today.

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[IndyGuy4KI]

58 minutes ago, PKIVortex said:

AE has been 1 train for about a month? I heard FoF was one train today.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

I still have a hard time understanding how not running a second train saves them money over the losses they receive from disappointed guests. How many guests will not return this year for a second visit? The possibility of more losses like family and coworkers of those disappointed guests not even coming once because of word of mouth. 

As @IBEW_Sparkysaid. It's shooting themselves in the foot. I really feel for those at the park that have no desire to be doing these cuts and have no choice in the matter. 

How about start running actual sales on merch to boost in park spending? 

Use some of those mobile carts and start selling ice cream buy one get one free. 

Let's get rid of the fun perks position. We never saw the result of that position anyway. 

[disco2000]

21 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I still have a hard time understanding how not running a second train saves them money over the losses they receive from disappointed guests. How many guests will not return this year for a second visit? The possibility of more losses like family and coworkers of those disappointed guests not even coming once because of word of mouth. 

As @IBEW_Sparkysaid. It's shooting themselves in the foot. I really feel for those at the park that have no desire to be doing these cuts and have no choice in the matter. 

How about start running actual sales on merch to boost in park spending? 

Use some of those mobile carts and start selling ice cream buy one get one free. 

Let's get rid of the fun perks position. We never saw the result of that position anyway. 

 

Do you have confirmation that one train ops is due to staffing cuts or is there an issue with a train that has forced their hand to only one train ops for AE and FoF?  I would think given Adventure Port is new, that even though AE is an old ride with some enhancements this year, that they would want it running as efficiently as possible and would run it with two trains if they could? 

One thing KI has seemed to always do is run all trains even on slow days.  Exception is they will pull off a train on Bat during rain.  So I think it is train related.  Otherwise why wouldn't they pull a Six Flags and remove a train off each coaster?  Well except for Invertigo LOL.

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

37 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

 

Do you have confirmation that one train ops is due to staffing cuts or is there an issue with a train that has forced their hand to only one train ops for AE and FoF?  I would think given Adventure Port is new, that even though AE is an old ride with some enhancements this year, that they would want it running as efficiently as possible and would run it with two trains if they could? 

One thing KI has seemed to always do is run all trains even on slow days.  Exception is they will pull off a train on Bat during rain.  So I think it is train related.  Otherwise why wouldn't they pull a Six Flags and remove a train off each coaster?  Well except for Invertigo LOL.

 

I don't and I hope this scenario is the case. The bad part is with other budget cuts, we assume it is one in the same. If not, why can't that be known. More information and understanding turns into empathy and patience to the situation. 

[Rallyomalley]

Just now, IndyGuy4KI said:

I don't and I hope this scenario is the case. The bad part is with other budget cuts, we assume it is one and the same. If not, why can't that be known. More information and understanding turns into empathy and patience to the situation. 

Maybe that’s the cynic in me, but at this point I’m not sure I’d believe the reason they’d give. This season has been full of empty promises (prestige anyone?),substandard ride ops (at least in comparison to previous years), reduced operating hours and days, early closures, and the list goes on. We didn’t even get 10 pm closes until darn near June.