RIP Nighthawk?

[Oldiesmann]

According to the admin of the Carowinds News and Updates group on Facebook, Nighthawk is now officially retired. Obviously just a rumor at this point since the park has yet to confirm anything, but it looks like another Vekoma flying coaster could be on the chopping block. This one was originally installed at California's Great America in 2000 and moved to Carowinds in 2004. One of Firehawk's trains was sent to Carowinds for use on this ride, or at least for parts, after it closed in 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/531478427908046/posts/1245994156456466/

[Tr0y]

Nighthawk was always a rough ride IMO. 

[PKIDelirium]

So is Batwing next?

[Orion-XL200]

I'm guessing they'll no longer support the Flying Dutchman coasters. I feel as if they'll end service on the product, which is why Carowinds and eventually Six Flags America will have the rides removed. I have no proof of this or anything, but this is just my gut feeling. 

An interesting note, I went to Vekoma's website to see if Flying Dutchman was still listed as a product...it is, under flying coasters. Aside from the "flying coaster" and "stingray coaster" concepts, they do list Flying Dutchman (twice - Firehawk and Batwing. What cracks me up is that for one of the listings of Flying Dutchman they mention it is Firehawk..but use pictures of X Flight at Six Flags Worlds of Adventure/Geauga Lake.  Check out the listing here: https://www.vekoma.com/references/flying-dutchman-1

[disco2000]

So is announcing ride closures AFTER the season is over the new SIX norm?

[DJSkyFoxx]

I will believe it when I see it officially announced, but sadly I would not be shocked since these models seem to be a nightmare for parks to operate and maintain as they are older Vekoma models with a lot of moving parts. I fear these will become extinct in the US without any new Vekoma flyers to arrive stateside. I would really love to see something like F.L.Y make its way over here, but no parks seem to be in a hurry to adopt these models even with the improved design and ride quality. 

If this is officially closing, I will be really sad for those who didn't get to obtain their final rides without notice. Would hate to see a trend of closing rides forever and not allowing people to say goodbye. 

[Shaggy]

There's more closures/demo notices yet to come across several other parks.  SF Corporate is going hard on high-cost, high maintenance rides.  It is what it is.  Personally, if/when this comes to fruition - I will not miss Nighthawk.  It was a terrible ride and is on my "will never ride again" list.

[Orion-XL200]

56 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

There's more closures/demo notices yet to come across several other parks.  SF Corporate is going hard on high-cost, high maintenance rides.  It is what it is.  Personally, if/when this comes to fruition - I will not miss Nighthawk.  It was a terrible ride and is on my "will never ride again" list.

Curious to hear what other high cost/high maintenance rides across SF that you think may end up leaving. 

With recent speculation, I am wondering (I hate to even say this) if Invertigo and Congo Falls are on their way out.

[WoodVengeance]

1 minute ago, Orion-XL200 said:

Curious to hear what other high cost/high maintenance rides across SF that you think may end up leaving. 

With recent speculation, I am wondering (I hate to even say this) if Invertigo and Congo Falls are on their way out.

It makes sense for Invertigo to get the axe. Like the Flying Dutchman, the standard Inverted Boomerang is an old and rare Vekoma model (though not as much of a maintenance nightmare) and isn't really that popular of a ride at Kings Island. Right now Invertigo is the last of its kind in North America and is being kept operational due to receiving spare parts from Stinger at Dorney Park, which closed 7 years ago so who knows how long those spare parts will last.

[Diamondback_Is_King]

I'm headed to Carowinds after Christmas to go for Winterfest and some more rides on Fury. I have yet to ride Nighthawk because it was closed the first time I went. Hopefully I can snag a ride on it before more rides start closing so that I can say I rode it and get the credit.

 

Which is rougher: Nighthawk or Invertigo?

[Orion-XL200]

35 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

It makes sense for Invertigo to get the axe. Like the Flying Dutchman, the standard Inverted Boomerang is an old and rare Vekoma model (though not as much of a maintenance nightmare) and isn't really that popular of a ride at Kings Island. Right now Invertigo is the last of its kind in North America and is being kept operational due to receiving spare parts from Stinger at Dorney Park, which closed 7 years ago so who knows how long those spare parts will last.

Agreed, I hate the situation though. I still love Invertigo though.

17 minutes ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

I'm headed to Carowinds after Christmas to go for Winterfest and some more rides on Fury. I have yet to ride Nighthawk because it was closed the first time I went. Hopefully I can snag a ride on it before more rides start closing so that I can say I rode it and get the credit.

 

Which is rougher: Nighthawk or Invertigo?

Nighthawk IMO

[BeeastFarmer]

44 minutes ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

I'm headed to Carowinds after Christmas to go for Winterfest and some more rides on Fury. I have yet to ride Nighthawk because it was closed the first time I went. Hopefully I can snag a ride on it before more rides start closing so that I can say I rode it and get the credit.

 

Which is rougher: Nighthawk or Invertigo?

I read "somewhere" that Nighthawk is not operating for WinterFest and that the area around it is fenced off.  I also checked their website and it is not listed as a WF ride.  If this is correct information, I['m sorry

[johnjniehaus]

Well with the new way things are going I wouldn't be surprised but I don't understand why they couldn't just tell people when we had a chance to get last rides. Closing rides during the off season with absolutely no notice is unacceptable in my opinion. It's all about the money is what it boils down to. 

[Diamondback_Is_King]

The industry is changing...we are noticing new ways theme parks operate, and we just have to adjust. Unfortunately, I'm noticing that no-warning closures may be the future for amusement parks. Also, more reliable coasters are taking over coasters like Ka (this means more Vekoma and B&M), and launch/family coasters are now the rave for theme parks.

[johnjniehaus]

4 hours ago, Diamondback_Is_King said:

The industry is changing...we are noticing new ways theme parks operate, and we just have to adjust. Unfortunately, I'm noticing that no-warning closures may be the future for amusement parks. Also, more reliable coasters are taking over coasters like Ka (this means more Vekoma and B&M), and launch/family coasters are now the rave for theme parks.

I know some of you will adjust but I'm young in age and old at heart and I'll complain about removals without notice till my final days. The industry can change all it wants but it doesn't mean I have to like it. It'll happen regardless of what I like but I can file complaints to the end of time

[DJSkyFoxx]

22 hours ago, Shaggy said:

There's more closures/demo notices yet to come across several other parks.  SF Corporate is going hard on high-cost, high maintenance rides.  It is what it is.  Personally, if/when this comes to fruition - I will not miss Nighthawk.  It was a terrible ride and is on my "will never ride again" list.

"It is what it is" might suit many, but not everyone. Remember, a ride you hate is a favorite to someone else with happy memories/sentimental value. 

I am aware that business decisions are not dictated by emotion, but you know, many industries these days have completely lost their ability to have any human touch. There is always a way to go about things with tact and grace even if it is a must. Just because something has to happen does not mean that there shouldn't be some sense of commitment to the guests/fans that gave them their success. 

But alas. Here we are. The wheels will keep turning and laser cutters will slice steel tracks and bulldozers will level grounds. And people will continue to purchase passes and patronize these facilities. 

I just think the people deserve better. *shrugs*

 

[TombRaiderFTW]

To me, the interesting question out of all of this is, "What happened to the situation at Six Flags to where they needed to axe their most maintenance-heavy and/or least reliable and/or less-popular older rides rides across the chain in the course of a single winter?" That's what's happening--La Vibora, Kingda Ka, Nighthawk, SFGAdv's Twister and Sky Ride, Snake River Falls, and potentially our Invertigo and Congo Falls all meet those criteria.

It's a bad look at any park to remove rides without warning. It's an especially bad look to remove some of the most well-known and unique rides without warning. It's a colossally bad look to knock down a quarter of Great Adventure and the only way anyone knew beforehand was rumors on Reddit.

And the Six Flags management team is smart enough to know that. So what happened financially behind the scenes to force this to happen?

Surely this wasn't the plan the entire time, right? Isn't maintaining the status quo with fewer people the entire shtick with a merger line this? I was braced for a decade or more of all parks but the top of the top performers to get small flat rides every few years until smaller properties get unloaded--not this.

EDIT: And like that, context was provided: https://KICentral.com/forums/topic/49150-the-bat-closing-in-2025/

[disco2000]

16 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

To me, the interesting question out of all of this is, "What happened to the situation at Six Flags to where they needed to axe their most maintenance-heavy and/or least reliable and/or less-popular older rides rides across the chain in the course of a single winter?" That's what's happening--La Vibora, Kingda Ka, Nighthawk, SFGAdv's Twister and Sky Ride, Snake River Falls, and potentially our Invertigo and Congo Falls all meet those criteria.

It's a bad look at any park to remove rides without warning. It's an especially bad look to remove some of the most well-known and unique rides without warning. It's a colossally bad look to knock down a quarter of Great Adventure and the only way anyone knew beforehand was rumors on Reddit.

And the Six Flags management team is smart enough to know that. So what happened financially behind the scenes to force this to happen?

Surely this wasn't the plan the entire time, right? Isn't maintaining the status quo with fewer people the entire shtick with a merger line this? I was braced for a decade or more of all parks but the top of the top performers to get small flat rides every few years until smaller properties get unloaded--not this.

EDIT: And like that, context was provided: https://KICentral.com/forums/topic/49150-the-bat-closing-in-2025/

 

Didn't they tout some line to the investors about the merger would result in like $200M in savings by consolidating/eliminating positions, etc. 

Well, there were not enough positions/consolidations to eliminate to come close to $200M in savings, so they have to find it in other ways.  Either cut capital expenditures or reduce operational expenditures.... 

[rlentless]

I agree with everyone.  There should have a farewell tour and last chance rides for all of the closures.  I am hoping it was just a new management team needing to make decisions to get the operation moving forward.  And hit the bottom line numbers.  Hopefully in years to come we can go back "come ride it while you still can" and closure announcements.

[jbeast]

During my last visit to Carowinds riding Nighthawk wasn't even on my radar with Fury around the corner. And my old Eagles too.

That said, I am sure some people loved the coaster and it is just a bad PR move to say too bad, no farewell tour and last ride announcements. So, deal with it. Just do not understand that mode of thinking.

As bad as it stung for the Flying Eagles to get stolen from the park, the days leading up to and the last day to ride them was beyond cherished by me and others. Knowing one of your favorite rides ever is leaving and still getting rides in until that happens makes you appreciate that ride so very much more. I absolutely loved that ride. Like the bumper cars, every ride on the Eagles was a different one than before. I contemplated not buying a pass the following year I was so angry. But the park still offers a great day every time. So, I got my pass like usual.

Now, if KI at the time, said out of the blue that the Eagles were being shipped out after the fact and did not let anyone know they were leaving until it was too late to get final rides. I would have been alot more hurt and angrier. I would have seriously reconsidered buying another pass. Of course, as I have said before, it still burns me after all these years walking past that stupid basketball game knowing the truly amazing ride that was once in that spot.

[johnjniehaus]

23 hours ago, disco2000 said:

 

Didn't they tout some line to the investors about the merger would result in like $200M in savings by consolidating/eliminating positions, etc. 

Well, there were not enough positions/consolidations to eliminate to come close to $200M in savings, so they have to find it in other ways.  Either cut capital expenditures or reduce operational expenditures.... 

As I said it's all about the money. The new combined chain has proven that money is much more important than customer satisfaction or doing what is morally right which is making announcements BEFORE people pay hundreds of dollars for a season pass for less product. To be fair most people would renew passes regardless but this isn't just an issue of "I didn't get to ride Kingda Ka one last time" (even though that is a valid problem and annoyance). This is a situation of complete lack of communication and denying the facts. Many people including myself were reaching out to the parks about the possibility of closures and they lied multiple times that no closures were planned even saying nothing was planned a week before Kingda Ka closed. Finally some closures were confirmed but there was never official press releases until after the coaster had already given final rides (unknown to most park goers) I don't understand the massive gutting of old attractions all in the same year with no notice and constant lying about it. The only reason I can come up with is MONEY. Money they are going to save by not investing in expensive, maintenance heavy rides, and the money they already got from unsuspecting customers who are now just "surprised" with the fact their favorite rollercoaster is no longer at the park

Edited December 14 by johnjniehaus

[MysticTimberwolf]

This new corporate era within the company are mostly industry outsiders. No company is completely homegrown, but corporate's prioritization of cheaper outside hires vs internal promotion has slowly gutted any passionate talent. To them, rides aren't ties to memories and experiences that last a lifetime; they're big colorful machines that make money the same way an industrial line robot does. And just like those robots, it's cheaper to get rid of the old expensive ones and put that money into something (or somewhere) else.

I remember how great it was to be out in the park on Firehawk's final night; people had traveled a long way to get their closure. Those people also spent a lot of money on Firehawk merch, as well as food, and parking, etc.. I have a feeling those same wallets would've made the journey for Nighthawk as well.

[johnjniehaus]

18 hours ago, MysticTimberwolf said:

I remember how great it was to be out in the park on Firehawk's final night; people had traveled a long way to get their closure. Those people also spent a lot of money on Firehawk merch, as well as food, and parking, etc.. I have a feeling those same wallets would've made the journey for Nighthawk as well.

People came out for Firehawk and Vortex both. People went to CP for Mantis, Mean Streak, and Wicked Twister. I think some people would have traveled for nighthawk because the Vekoma flying Dutchman coasters are such a rare credit

[KIBeast]

I agree about no notice for ride closures. They did the same thing with Kingda Ka. I never got to experience it and was hoping to make the trek there some day. I still want to go. I was just surprised that there was no announcement about the ride closing for good. 

[DonHelbig]

I was, as Gary Wachs told me a few years ago, a "true carney." That's why I believe it's the wrong decision to not be transparent with park fans when a ride is going to be retired and let them know in advance so they can get in their last rides. 

[Tr0y]

7 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

I was, as Gary Wachs told me a few years ago, a "true carney." That's why I believe it's the wrong decision to not be transparent with park fans when a ride is going to be retired and let them know in advance so they can get in their last rides. 

I agree, and the demand created from that scarcity of a soon to be retired ride would attracts folks to come to the park. Therefore it would warrant transparency.

Maybe they don’t want to sell tickets?