Camp Snoopy Construction Updates

[DonHelbig]

2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

I don't have a problem with it either, but then I wouldn't expect it to be a highly anticipated ride on a top 10 list of most anticipated new rides either....doesn't mean it isn't a good addition to the park.

I don't recall Sol Spin/Cargo Loco making any anticipated new rides for 2023 either...but it was still a good addition to the park...

The new parking tolls had news placements across the country, including The New York Times. Woodstock Gliders and Snoopy’s Space Buggies made it out of the park’s backyard too, including The New York Times, Boston Globe, Houston Chronicle, Orlando Sentinel, and a couple hundred others. 

When The Beast turned 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, news placements were garnered in outlets across the country. It was the cover story on magazines for the 30th and 35th anniversary. The 40th? Pretty much just the Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus markets with the story placements.  It turns 45 this year. You won’t see Google alerts popping up in your email about the anniversary in many places. 

It’s all about how the story is pitched and selling why it matters to the news outlets’ audience. You can sell snow to an Eskimo if the story is compelling enough. 
 

 

[Imperial79]

I don't think anyone's noticed but while looking at the webcams, Snoopy's Soap Box Racers is going to go over the Log Flume, that's neat! 

[BoddaH1994]

10 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

The new parking tolls had news placements across the country, including The New York Times. Woodstock Gliders and Snoopy’s Space Buggies made it out of the park’s backyard too, including The New York Times, Boston Globe, Houston Chronicle, Orlando Sentinel, and a couple hundred others. 

When The Beast turned 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, news placements were garnered in outlets across the country. It was the cover story on magazines for the 30th and 35th anniversary. The 40th? Pretty much just the Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus markets with the story placements.  It turns 45 this year. You won’t see Google alerts popping up in your email about the anniversary in many places. 

It’s all about how the story is pitched and selling why it matters to the news outlets’ audience. You can sell snow to an Eskimo if the story is compelling enough. 
 

 

Plus… why is Good Gravy “most anticipated” but Soapbox Racers isn’t?

There’s no doubt that this is a great fit for the park; however, if GG is on this particular list but Soapbox isn’t then it’s a referendum on the effort put into it, not the quality of the ride.

Just remember- they spend this capitol to get an ROI. The ride can be great, but if the awareness falls short then it’s still not fulfilling the plan for the funds.

 

[Orion-XL200]

7 hours ago, disco2000 said:

 

Good catch.  See even the way they marketed the ride makes it seem way shorter LOL. 

And good catch on it being a stock catalog design.  Another reason to not be overly excited.

3 hours ago, disco2000 said:

I don't have a problem with it either, but then I wouldn't expect it to be a highly anticipated ride on a top 10 list of most anticipated new rides either....doesn't mean it isn't a good addition to the park.

I don't recall Sol Spin/Cargo Loco making any anticipated new rides for 2023 either...but it was still a good addition to the park...

While there aren't a lot of "stock designs" on the lists in previous years, you can almost consider rides like Dr. Diabolical's Cliffhanger or Tumbili "off the shelf" or "standard layouts" that made some sort of "the most anticipated"/"exciting new ride lists", etc. 

I'm not sure if there was a list of most anticipated rides for attractions like Sol Spin/Cargo Loco..but if there was, would the hype actually be there to make it on that list? 

1 hour ago, rlentless said:

Gotta admit I have been more anticipating "Camp Snoopy" than SSBR.  Not sure if it's the park's problem with marketing or just me.  I thought what they did with Adventure Port was great and wanted more upgrades like that around the park.

Then I started thinking "Would I really know about a new coaster at KI, if I wasn't reading KIC posts everyday"?  Not sure.

It's not just you. And to answer your question, I highly doubt it, but if you did know about it, it would be well after the fact of die hard fans finding out.

1 hour ago, Imperial79 said:

I think they are right by going with the Camp Snoopy push as the main thing, they want to retake the Golden Ticket Award back, and you don’t do that just by talking about a new coaster, it needs to be them talking about expanding Planet Snoopy, and that’s what they’re doing. It would be nice to see a Peanuts Pirate ride added someday, it’s popular at Carowinds. 

Golden Ticket Awards are funny in my book. I often disagree with the winners and know several who do as well. It's a "popularity" contest that only a few get to vote in. It'd be more of a benefit if a wider audience got to vote.

[DonHelbig]

From the Kings Island website: 

Franklin's Flyers

You can fly!

Riders take flight in one of the unique carriages that spin outward like a swing and then rise above the ground. Once in the air, riders can take matters in their own hands by operating the carriage’s paddle in order to control the gliders flight, from mild to wild. Fly the way your heart desires, as all eight gliders have a unique route that only the rider can determine. Go for a fun and thrilling ride 28 feet in the air, weaving in and out of the clouds, maneuvering your way through the Camp Snoopy midway. Whether you choose to explore the high altitudes or cruise at a lower elevation, the choice is up to you. Woodstock Gliders is a ride that appeals to guests of all ages and something everyone in the family can enjoy together. It’s so much fun! You’ll want to ride this attraction more than once.

Kings Island Team, you're welcome... again! 

[RedSummit20]

25 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

From the Kings Island website: 

Franklin's Flyers

You can fly!

Riders take flight in one of the unique carriages that spin outward like a swing and then rise above the ground. Once in the air, riders can take matters in their own hands by operating the carriage’s paddle in order to control the gliders flight, from mild to wild. Fly the way your heart desires, as all eight gliders have a unique route that only the rider can determine. Go for a fun and thrilling ride 28 feet in the air, weaving in and out of the clouds, maneuvering your way through the Camp Snoopy midway. Whether you choose to explore the high altitudes or cruise at a lower elevation, the choice is up to you. Woodstock Gliders is a ride that appeals to guests of all ages and something everyone in the family can enjoy together. It’s so much fun! You’ll want to ride this attraction more than once.

Kings Island Team, you're welcome... again! 

lol good eye, its still on there too haha 

[disco2000]

Just don't snap them...

[DispatchMaster]

3 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Plus… why is Good Gravy “most anticipated” but Soapbox Racers isn’t?

Because, as far as I can tell, the list appears to be the coasters the ACE President happens to be personally looking forward to, which is a pretty meaningless and arbitrary metric. Obviously it's better to be on the list than not, but I think trying to figure out "why" SSBR is not on the list is silly, given how completely subjective the list appears to be. Ask 10 enthusiasts what their most anticipated rides are, and you'll likely get 10 unique lists.

3 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

...if GG is on this particular list but Soapbox isn’t then it’s a referendum on the effort put into it, not the quality of the ride.

See above. That it's not on this list appears to simply mean that Elizabeth Ringas isn't personally looking forward to it. As the President of ACE, she is, no doubt, aware of the ride, so I don't see how marketing would have much, if any, effect on whether or not she is personally excited for the ride. HW adding their first family coaster is bigger news than KI expanding their already well-rounded family-friendly offerings.

Then again, if one's preconceived notion is that poor marketing is the reason for all things bad, then of course that's the lens through which everything will be viewed. Objectivity is hard, I guess.

3 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

they spend this capitol to get an ROI. The ride can be great, but if the awareness falls short then it’s still not fulfilling the plan for the funds.

They don't build rides for "awareness" of the ACE President, they build rides to entertain guests. And so long as the ride's operating cost per rider metric is met, then it is "fulfilling the plan for the funds". 

[Taylor.B03]

There's some green track and a dark support!

[BoddaH1994]

On 3/1/2024 at 2:10 PM, DispatchMaster said:

Because, as far as I can tell, the list appears to be the coasters the ACE President happens to be personally looking forward to, which is a pretty meaningless and arbitrary metric. Obviously it's better to be on the list than not, but I think trying to figure out "why" SSBR is not on the list is silly, given how completely subjective the list appears to be. Ask 10 enthusiasts what their most anticipated rides are, and you'll likely get 10 unique lists.

See above. That it's not on this list appears to simply mean that Elizabeth Ringas isn't personally looking forward to it. As the President of ACE, she is, no doubt, aware of the ride, so I don't see how marketing would have much, if any, effect on whether or not she is personally excited for the ride. HW adding their first family coaster is bigger news than KI expanding their already well-rounded family-friendly offerings.

Then again, if one's preconceived notion is that poor marketing is the reason for all things bad, then of course that's the lens through which everything will be viewed. Objectivity is hard, I guess.

They don't build rides for "awareness" of the ACE President, they build rides to entertain guests. And so long as the ride's operating cost per rider metric is met, then it is "fulfilling the plan for the funds". 

So you’re saying that Elizabeth not listing Soap Box as one of the “most anticipated” when the ACE is holding their Spring Conference is not a referendum on the Kings Island Team’s relationship with ACE? What about top-of-mind awareness?

Both of which are the responsibility the same team. 

Under some circumstances I could see your point; however, they are in the midst of planning a huge event at Kings Island. Despite Kings Island being their main business focus right now, they still chose to forgo Soapbox for a very similar ride. It’s quite telling. 

[DispatchMaster]

All that list tells us is that Elizabeth is more excited for one ride versus another. Interpreting anything beyond that is meaningless conjecture.

"She would have been more excited for Roller Coaster 1 if only KI had sent her a better media packet" is a giant, nonsensical leap that also happens to be insulting to her intelligence.

Maybe she prefers the theming of HW's ride. Maybe, as ACE President, she understands that GG is a more interesting debut for HW - considering it's their first family coaster - than SSBR is as an addition to the much more mature KI coaster lineup. Maybe she prefers GG because it isn't KI's bland, off-the-shelf model that has existed at other parks for the better part of a decade. Or maybe she just prefers red track to yellow. 

There are obviously plenty of earned, valid criticisms of KI's marketing team without resorting to nonsensically blaming them for nearly every perceived negative outcome.

[PKIDelirium]

Good Gravy is a major by-itself addition for Holiday World, but for KI it's a major chain park with a lot of coasters expanding the kids area. I don't think the stock design is "bland" because it's the first instance of it in the US. Sure, there are numerous instances in Europe but "New Vekoma" is just now getting into the US market.

[Gordon Bombay]

12 minutes ago, PKIDelirium said:

 Sure, there are numerous instances in Europe but "New Vekoma" is just now getting into the US market.

Exactly. It's also a kids ride that was omitted from a clickbait list on USA Today. Don't think this is a "Dewey Defeats Truman" situation here. 

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

All that list tells us is that Elizabeth is more excited for one ride versus another. Interpreting anything beyond that is meaningless conjecture.

"She would have been more excited for Roller Coaster 1 if only KI had sent her a better media packet" is a giant, nonsensical leap that also happens to be insulting to her intelligence.

Maybe she prefers the theming of HW's ride. Maybe, as ACE President, she understands that GG is a more interesting debut for HW - considering it's their first family coaster - than SSBR is as an addition to the much more mature KI coaster lineup. Maybe she prefers GG because it isn't KI's bland, off-the-shelf model that has existed at other parks for the better part of a decade. Or maybe she just prefers red track to yellow. 

There are obviously plenty of earned, valid criticisms of KI's marketing team without resorting to nonsensically blaming them for nearly every perceived negative outcome.

Agreed, but I still stand by the idea that, no matter which park you are, if you are omitted from any of these “listicles,” management will want to know why. 
 

As you probably recall, they were left off of locals lists such as “Top 10 Things To Do in Cincinnati” when they had things like WF or Haunt opening that weekend. If it was just this one, you may be right, but since this is a common subject then I think most would agree that it’s indicative of a much larger problem. 

[DispatchMaster]

15 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

...management will want to know why.

If upper management is wondering why the small, off-the-shelf addition to their kids' area wasn't included on an arbitrary list, they are wildly incompetent managers, and we should be far more worried about upper management than their marketing team.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

New update from the KI Team:

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/blog/2024/january/camp-snoopy-construction-update

[DispatchMaster]

An 87 word paragraph accompanied by a 0.14 megapixel picture of ~8 feet of track is an absolutely embarrassing excuse for a construction update.

[jcoop22]

They should be doing a weekly video talking to a someone (a member of the construction company / contractor / KI GM) giving progress updates on all the Camp Snoopy work and other projects in the park. I remember University of Cincinnati doing videos like that during the different offseasons when they did work on both Nippert Stadium and Fifth Third Arena. They called it Hardhat Wednesday. It doesn't take much. Just do 3 or 4 minutes a week highlighting the progress.

[Imperial79]

Yeah that’s why I didn’t share the new construction update, was really nothing we didn’t already know. Hope we get to see some pics or even a video sometime of them repainting (wink KI Team) Woodstock Gliders to Franklin’s Flyers. 

[BeeastFarmer]

But, on a positive note...we got a new FunFact Friday. While the KITeam has much to be desired, this is a great thing they do.  I'm assuming this is Elizabeth (?) and deserves kudos for this!

[Orion-XL200]

3 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

But, on a positive note...we got a new FunFact Friday. While the KITeam has much to be desired, this is a great thing they do.  I'm assuming this is Elizabeth (?) and deserves kudos for this!

What was the FunFact Friday? Must be so fun, that it's not really out there. 

 

7 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

New update from the KI Team:

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/blog/2024/january/camp-snoopy-construction-update

When I saw the colors, I had to think "Runaway Reptar" though the track was yellow and the supports were green. 

[DonHelbig]

18 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

An 87 word paragraph accompanied by a 0.14 megapixel picture of ~8 feet of track is an absolutely embarrassing excuse for a construction update.

While eating some pancakes this morning at a restaurant in Pigeon Forge, I wrote a construction update based on the information the Kings Island Team has been willing to share with park fans.

“While the Soap Box Racers are gearing up for action, we’re thrilled to share the latest on the makeover happening around the new Camp Snoopy-themed kids’ area. Drumroll, please! This spring, we say hello to Woodstock’s Air Rail, formerly known as Flying Ace Aerial Chase. 

Picture this: Woodstock’s in charge of delivering all the important Camp Snoopy mail, and the roller coaster is getting a nature-inspired facelift to fit the theme. Imagine a ride through a tree—the track is being painted green to represent leaves and the structure brown for the trunk and branches. It’s going to be a literal thrill for kids and their parents through the heart of nature!

But what about the ride itself? Woodstock’s Air Rail, an inverted roller coaster by Vekoma (the same manufacturer for Soap Box Racers), will take you on a wild journey. The adventure kicks off with a 90-degree turn, then it’s off to conquer a double helix to the left. Hold on tight as you zoom under the lift hill and soar over the station like you could touch the sky with your feet. A couple more twists and turns later, and you’re coasting into the brakes and back into the station. 

Oh, and for those roller coaster enthusiasts who love details: it’s single train, 10 cars, with riders seated 2 across in a single row, making it a total joyride for 20 excited thrill-seekers. Our award-winning kids’ area just got a whole lot more exhilarating — Woodstock style!

BTW — For those who like to keep track, Woodstock’s Air Rail is not a new credit.”

[Orion-XL200]

It's amazing how simple, yet how effective something like this could be. 

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

I saw that the circular Planet Snoopy sign is gone now, it's going to be replace by Camp Snoopy waterfall or sign.

[DispatchMaster]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:35 PM, jcoop22 said:

It doesn't take much. Just do 3 or 4 minutes a week highlighting the progress.

Even if they can't easily produce video that often (it's easier said than done), it would be trivially easy to add a few extra pictures and provide some basic accompanying context in the update. "Here are some footers. This is the station platform, where guests will load. Here's where the queue will be." Instead they share a single  picture that looks like it may have been shot with a Razr V3.

It's not that hard. We're enthusiasts, we're easily entertained.

[DonHelbig]

On 3/11/2024 at 6:39 AM, DispatchMaster said:

Even if they can't easily produce video that often (it's easier said than done), it would be trivially easy to add a few extra pictures and provide some basic accompanying context in the update. "Here are some footers. This is the station platform, where guests will load. Here's where the queue will be." Instead they share a single  picture that looks like it may have been shot with a Razr V3.

It's not that hard. We're enthusiasts, we're easily entertained.

It’s important when you’re in a communications and storytelling position that you have an understanding of who your audience is, and what they want and need to succeed in the role. 

[DispatchMaster]

17 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

...an understanding of who your audience is...

Indeed, and I think the KI team not knowing who their audience is might be the most accurate and charitable way to look at it. When you're deeply involved in a long, substantial project, it's natural to not view the day-to-day happenings as anything more than mundane, uninteresting details. I doubt Tony Clark is super jazzed about queue foundation concrete curing, but that team understands that enthusiasts will find that interesting enough to warrant a picture and a few words.

[jcoop22]

Here’s a great example that the Cincinnati Zoo posted today with info on the new elephant exhibit. 

 

[DonHelbig]

3 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Indeed, and I think the KI team not knowing who their audience is might be the most accurate and charitable way to look at it. When you're deeply involved in a long, substantial project, it's natural to not view the day-to-day happenings as anything more than mundane, uninteresting details. I doubt Tony Clark is super jazzed about queue foundation concrete curing, but that team understands that enthusiasts will find that interesting enough to warrant a picture and a few words.

Tony Clark has done a great job keeping Cedar Point fans and roller coaster enthusiasts informed and engaged about Top Thrill 2 with the series of updates he’s done. Because of his efforts, he’s enhanced the anticipation and excitement for the ride’s opening in May. 

[Orion-XL200]

9 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

Tony Clark has done a great job keeping Cedar Point fans and roller coaster enthusiasts informed and engaged about Top Thrill 2 with the series of updates he’s done. Because of his efforts, he’s enhanced the anticipation and excitement for the ride’s opening in May. 

On top of that the team at Dorney has done an amazing job covering enhancements/the installation of Iron Menace.