Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[WoodVengeance]

To be fair, there were legitimate reasons behind the 2023 and 2024 additions not being ready for opening day. Mike Koontz stated in an interview for Adventure Port that Cargo Loco and Sol Spin were planned very late, hence why Adventure Port was announced later than usual and why the parts for those rides weren't delivered until around the start of the 2023 season. As for 2024, Vekoma promised Holiday World that Good Gravy was going to be the first Family Boomerang to open in the states, so their priority was getting Good Gravy open before SSBR.

[johnjniehaus]

I understand that there are circumstances and reasons that rides and attractions are not ready for opening day but it doesn't make it any less annoying. As has been pointed out here, this is something six flags has been criticized for over and over and Kings Island historically has held I higher standard in the industry. For example, major coasters additions such as Banshee and Mystic Timbers were open for pass holder preview day and opening weekend. Orion probably would have been ready but unfortunately covid delayed the season for two months. If I had to choose between no new rides or new rides opening late, of course I'd always choose new ride opening late but the point here is that it doesn't have to open late and when parks get comfortable opening rides late all the time and it becomes the norm you get six flags. When I was at SFSL on Memorial Day they had only poured the concrete pad for their Joker Carnival of Chaos frisbee... How about SFGA only now getting their Sky Striker open? I'm just saying if you can delay till Memorial Day, and lower the standard where does it end?

[DispatchMaster]

18 hours ago, KI Guy said:

they've both added additions on time and maintained what they had well. It's concerning because they have always done both assumably to compete but now it's become an "either/or"?

Generally speaking, the parks had fewer attractions twenty years ago than they have now. So they grew their lineup, but only to a certain point and not to infinity. There's a limit, and it's almost always based on what they can realistically operate and maintain, rather than a geographical limitation, with the obvious exceptions of some very small parks.

To Don's point, if they cannot maintain and operate what they have now, there's no sense in adding anything at this point.

18 hours ago, KI Guy said:

Diamondback opened in 2009. Construction started with tree clearing in 2007 and some footers were poured by opening day 2008. The timeline for Mystic Timbers was similar.

Look at the geography of Diamondback. With the exception of the in-park footers that were poured prior to 2007 (if memory serves), the vast majority of the work occurred outside of the existing park boundary, so that meant they could work without disturbing day-to-day park operation. Even DB's station was located in an area that allowed for work during the season. Same for Mystic Timbers. Adventure Port and Camp Snoopy required work in areas that were open to guests, which precluded an early start to the projects.

18 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

...both Wild Mouse and TT2 at Cedar Point opened on their target opening dates...

Yes, because in the case of Wild Mouse, that whole area was inaccessible to guests, and could be accessed by construction crews without going through guest-accessible areas. And for TT2, they had multiple years where that whole area was closed off. The same is true for KD's new wing coaster - it's on the edge of the property with an access road leading to it, so easy to get started during the season and debut on opening day.

But just because that's sometimes the case doesn't mean it's always the case, and ascribing the different debut/opening day alignments to parks not caring or whatever is, in most cases, misguided.

[disco2000]

Not close to Vortex but a survey marker in Coney Mall by arcade across from Skyline.

[BeeastFarmer]

25 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Not close to Vortex but a survey marker in Coney Mall by arcade across from Skyline.

Skyride confirmed!

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

That marker is white which means according to the color log of construction markings that it is "proposed excavation" which means that area will likely be dug up for something. What that is, I have no idea. Since it is far from The Vortex site, it probably has nothing to do with that area. 

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

That marker is white which means according to the color log of construction markings that it is "proposed excavation" which means that area will likely be dug up for something. What that is, I have no idea. Since it is far from The Vortex site, it probably has nothing to do with that area. 

So do they dig up the parade route as it gets marked in white 

This is a pk nail survey marker...

[BeeastFarmer]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

So do they dig up the parade route as it gets marked in white 

This is a pk nail survey marker...

Maybe it's a survey marker for a saloon or for future brew festival structure. Might as well have another bar in the park!

[KIfan73]

Just posted today.  Are they taunting us?

 

[snakeeyes]

9 hours ago, KIfan73 said:

Just posted today.  Are they taunting us?

 

I don’t know if you have Instagram, but they also posted something about Vortex on their IG page as well

[rlentless]

Just a thought hit me when watching The Vortex video, and I know it could never happen.  But would you want an exact newly built replica of The Vortex as it stood in 1987?  Maybe with a new twist somewhere.  Or one of new coaster types listed in this blog over the last couple of years?

[BeeastFarmer]

25 minutes ago, rlentless said:

Just a thought hit me when watching The Vortex video, and I know it could never happen.  But would you want an exact newly built replica of The Vortex as it stood in 1987?  Maybe with a new twist somewhere.  Or one of new coaster types listed in this blog over the last couple of years?

Only if they could replicate the iconic Arrow lift hill sound.

[johnjniehaus]

2 hours ago, rlentless said:

Just a thought hit me when watching The Vortex video, and I know it could never happen.  But would you want an exact newly built replica of The Vortex as it stood in 1987?  Maybe with a new twist somewhere.  Or one of new coaster types listed in this blog over the last couple of years?

I wouldn't mind a coaster with the same layout if it was super new and smooth. Vortex had great elements. Whatever goes there I really hope has a boomerang inversion where the old one was on Vortex because that was an amazing photo spot 

[DiamondbackFan]

One of the concepts in the passholder survey was to use The Vortex land to extend The Beast and create The Beast 2.0.

https://old.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/1eiqazj/passholder_survey_at_kings_island_shows_a_concept/

[MysticTimberwolf]

This feels like a hoax NoLimits 2 rendering.

[WoodVengeance]

59 minutes ago, DiamondbackFan said:

One of the concepts in the passholder survey was to use The Vortex land to extend The Beast and create The Beast 2.0.

https://old.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/1eiqazj/passholder_survey_at_kings_island_shows_a_concept/

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring that up here. As insane of an idea as this is, I really just feel Kings Island should just leave The Beast alone and have whatever goes in The Vortex plot be its own thing.

The concepts from the previous survey seemed to be designed without a specific park in-mind, and this is the first concept that is obviously specific to Kings Island, with the concept directly involving The Beast and even being shown in The Vortex plot.

This is just speculation on my part, but it could be possible Kings Island is using this to gauge the general public's interest in a new wooden coaster (probably from Gravity Group) with a 184ft drop in The Vortex plot. If this is the case, I don't think that's what Kings Island really needs at the moment. They have plenty of wooden coasters as-is and the park is currently lacking in coasters with inversions. I think the best course would be to add a new steel coaster with inversions in The Vortex plot, but that's just my personal opinion.

With all that being said, I think the one thing that's clear from this is that, from my observation, it does appear to me that Kings Island is starting to plan what's finally going to go in The Vortex plot. Here's hoping it'll be 2026, but I'm not going to hold my breath until we get more concrete evidence.

[Tr0y]

58 minutes ago, DiamondbackFan said:

One of the concepts in the passholder survey was to use The Vortex land to extend The Beast and create The Beast 2.0.

https://old.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/1eiqazj/passholder_survey_at_kings_island_shows_a_concept/

I got a survey tonight that didn’t show Beast 2.0.

It just asked what attraction would I like to see at KI in the next 2-3 years followed by which attraction would I not miss.

[Orion742]

13 hours ago, DiamondbackFan said:

One of the concepts in the passholder survey was to use The Vortex land to extend The Beast and create The Beast 2.0.

https://old.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/1eiqazj/passholder_survey_at_kings_island_shows_a_concept/

I am not a fan of this concept. I love The Beast but they should keep it the way it is. Extending it might ruin its charm that I love. This is not the best way to use The Vortex plot of land. It should be used for a new coaster. Just retrack The Beast with more precut track if they want to do some work on it. Our two launch coasters are great but I still feel we need a modern launch coaster of some kind.

[WoodVengeance]

Apparently there was another option in the survey for a Gerstlauer Infinity coaster with 10 inversions. In my opinion, something like that or a Mack Stryker would be a far better fit for that plot of land compared to The Beast 2.0 concept.

[ShedTreeBoi1]

I think a Titan Track GCI or ground up RMC Ibox would work great in The Vortex plot, and a sprawling, inversion based steel coaster as a front gate coaster would be incredible 

[super7]

If this was really a possibility, No for extending The Beast like that.   First of all, it removes part of the ride from the woods.     The extension is also not terrain based. 
 

The Beast is currently a moderate coadter    It does have the first 120 ft steep drop, but other than that the rest of the coaster is all about speed and not high, steep drops    This proposed extension is not like the original ride   

 

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

To the other ideas and opinions, here is my opinion.

 

Peanuts dark ride:  If it's replacing Boo Blaster, save that for Phantom Theater.  It's a fan favorite and you can make it part of International Street.

 

The Beast 2.0: Ridiculous, but I would love to see a theming elements through out the queue, station and experience.  It doesn't need to be much more longer than it is.

 

Infinity coaster:  Open your eyes Kings Island, their is a way of bringing back Vortex in a new way.  And you can get away with it by having the most inversion on any coaster period.  More than The Smiler.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Whatever we get we need an extreme thrill ride that will appeal to the teen and extreme thrill seeker.  I want to get off of it and go (in the words of @silver2005) "good googly moogly" what did I just ride. 

I think an RMC, MACK spinner, or GCI titan track coaster would do the trick. 

[silver2005]

I don't know if I want to go Mack spinner crazy, I would take something along the lines of Copperhead at Carowinds with maybe a bit more umph to the launches.  A ground-up RMC I-box coaster would be welcome, I would settle for a floorless or wing coaster if they have to go with B&M again (no dive coaster please). If Vekoma could pull off a muti-inversion launch coaster that could handle 3 train operations, I'd be okay with that as well.   An Infinity Coaster would be more in the spirit of Vortex if they go more inversion centric.  

[Orion742]

5 hours ago, silver2005 said:

I don't know if I want to go Mack spinner crazy, I would take something along the lines of Copperhead at Carowinds with maybe a bit more umph to the launches.  A ground-up RMC I-box coaster would be welcome, I would settle for a floorless or wing coaster if they have to go with B&M again (no dive coaster please). If Vekoma could pull off a muti-inversion launch coaster that could handle 3 train operations, I'd be okay with that as well.   An Infinity Coaster would be more in the spirit of Vortex if they go more inversion centric.  

Sticking with Mack, a Mack Stryker coaster would be a fantastic addition. It could still be inversion focused but be the modern launch we need with ejector airtime.

[DoomPlague]

2 hours ago, Orion742 said:

Sticking with Mack, a Mack Stryker coaster would be a fantastic addition. It could still be inversion focused but be the modern launch we need with ejector airtime.

Personally, I feel like Banshee is enough of an inversion machine for the park, especially since most inversions...really aren't that great (and I say that as someone whose love of coasters began with Vortex). I would be a thrilled with a Mack Stryker though. Voltron is fantastic.

[Hoeter]

I saw the post about the Passholder Survey on Reddit last night, below are my thoughts: 

Peanuts Dark Ride - seems the most logical option to me, given how long Boo Blasters has been there. Others have mentioned Phantom Theater potentially making a return. Those who are in my age group (mid to late 30's) who grew up late KECO/early-mid Paramount era, I think, would enjoy the throwback and nostalgia of a reboot.

Gerstlauer Infinity Coaster - if we're talking a coaster, this is something that could fit well in the old Vortex plot, or if they decide to remove Congo Falls and Invertigo, it could fit in there also. Personally speaking, I would like to see something similar to Maverick at Cedar Point, however with the merger, is the new Six Flags willing to work with Intamin again or will they shell out the money and get a Mack coaster similar to Copperhead Strike at Carowinds?

Beast 2.0 - The Beast is the coaster that started it for me as an enthusiast. If this plan actually were to move forward, I could see it upsetting a lot of people, myself included, given the historical significance of this ride on a personal level, in the park and throughout the industry. If there were to be major additions to the ride, wouldn't this adversely affect the ACE Coaster Landmark status that it holds? I'm not keen on this idea and think The Beast should be left as it currently stands. If they want to put a ground up RMC as an homage to Son of Beast in the old Vortex plot, this could be a viable solution.

[WoodVengeance]

2 hours ago, Hoeter said:

Personally speaking, I would like to see something similar to Maverick at Cedar Point, however with the merger, is the new Six Flags willing to work with Intamin again or will they shell out the money and get a Mack coaster similar to Copperhead Strike at Carowinds?

It'll probably depend on the reliability of Georgia Surfer and the straddle coaster going to SFNE. If new Six Flags sees that both of those coasters end up being pretty reliable, then maybe they will have a change of heart and give them more projects. In addition to that, this also makes me wonder what new Six Flags's relationship with Gerstlauer will be. Although Cedar Fair was okay about working with them, the incident that happened on New Texas Giant pretty much ruined the relationship Gerstlauer had with old Six Flags and if that's going to carry on at all.

[KatieF]

I know this isn't fully related...

But I've thought it was interesting that Kings Island still uses a clip of The Vortex is one of their advertisements. I constantly get a commercial on Youtube that starts with "sometimes it's good to talk to animals" (or something similar to that) and it shows The Vortex. I thought that was odd, and probably no one notices it except me.

[WoodVengeance]

A while back, I made this fan concept for a Gerstlauer Infinity coaster that was themed to the Shooting Star at the old Coney Island. The general idea was to include 10 inversions and have the ride split into two parts, with the second lift hill taking place after the fifth inversion as a middle section. (Similar to what Smiler does with its two lift hills) I also included a Coney Mall retheme to Coney Fair, which also included a Gerstlauer Sky Roller and a Jukebox Diner retheme. I hadn't shared this concept before as I wasn't really sure how feasible a Gerstlauer was going to be in terms of capacity, but I'd figure it would be a good time to share it since this type of ride was included in the recent survey.