Kings Island Prestige Pass

[disco2000]

57 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Yes, we quit buying things we no longer felt were of adequate value. What we didn't do was get weirdly emotional about it and create wild, unsubstantiated, nonsensical conspiracy theories about the situation.

Again, "bait-and-switch" implies they always intended to rescind some of the perks of the pass. And sure, you can claim that's the case, just as I can claim they rescinded those perks in order to deter the unholy wraith of the fairy unicorn gods. And both claims are supported by equal evidence, actual, circumstantial, and otherwise: none whatsoever.

You must be in the legal department for Cedar Fair with how much you defend them 

Just because it doesn't meet the legal definition of "bait and switch" and would be considered a frivolous lawsuit doesn't mean it is ethically and morally right to do.

However, it could potentially fall under the definition of bait and switch regarding the bottled drinks being taken away and telling the passholders they should just go ahead and buy the drink plan, which then is considered an "upsell".

However, just because legally they are meeting the letter of the law doesn't mean they are not employing some of the other psychological persuasion techniques companies do to persuade consumers. In psychology, "bait-and-switch" is a term that is often used to describe a persuasive technique in which an initial promise or offer is made, but the offer is later withdrawn or changed in some way even if it legally allowed per terms and conditions.

Sounds like what happened to Prestige to me...

They feel emotionally/psychologically that they already have the consumer and with the exception of a few like you that speak with their wallet, the rest will simply continuing opening their wallet every year and buy whatever the park offers the following year.  

I am sure that they eliminated the platinum pass in hopes that people would move to the prestige pass because of the psychological selling effect that someone that has had platinum for X number years doesn't want to drop to a mere gold pass LOL.

But alas you will disagree, so this is simply one of the many times that folks here will have to agree to disagree with your take on the subject LOL.

[super7]

13 hours ago, Tr0y said:

Do tell about these “countless reasons” since it wasn’t intentional because the only thing they are counting are dollar bills that they are now pocketing by not delivering remotely close to the product that was advertised.
 

They advertised a VIP lounge with bottle drinks then as soon as the season starts they switched to tap water. That is text book bait and switch. The chain is simply using caveat emptor as a means to make it “legal.” It is unethical regardless. 
 

Have you learned by now there are some people that will defend the unethical practices of  Cedar Fair on their customers AND employees, no matter what they do?  Including nitpicking the definition of bait and switch.

I also consider their early closings bait and switch. They advertised operating hours than they did not provide the service.   And they only INTEND on providing the service.If the day is profitable to them.  An ethical business Takes its profits with its losses and does not screw the customer AND employees on a bad day.

 

Cedar Fair advertises a product, they get the peoples money, then they change the because they have a tiny disclaimer

It’s legal, but it’s unethical  

People keep repurchasing season passes   Not because they are being given a great product or service, but because they are relatively a cheap form of entertainment, if one goes enough.  
 

So the end result of these cheap season passes is a company who does not stand behind what they advertise uses a disclaimer to get out of it  

I know I continue to buy the passes for the above reason. They are low cost entertainment.   Personally, I would rather pay more and get exactly what is expected. But I do know this, I would never work for Cedar Fair because of their clear lack of ethics

 

 

[DispatchMaster]

21 hours ago, disco2000 said:

However, it could potentially fall under the definition of bait and switch...

For the ten millionth time, only if they always intended on switching from bottled to tap water. If they initially intended on provided bottled water and later changed to tap, then you can call that "unethical" if you're so inclined, but it ain't a "bait-and-switch". But it's clear that emotion is getting the better of you, given the use of words like "unethical", "morally", and phrases like "I am sure that...". You already have a conclusion before having the relevant facts, and it's clear you'll be darned if the absence or presence of facts will change your mind. One cannot be reasoned out of a position they did not reason themselves into, as the saying goes...

12 hours ago, super7 said:

And they only INTEND on providing the service.If the day is profitable to them.

Has a CF park ever changed a day's operating hours on the day, for reasons other than weather or "acts of god"? And even when there are unavoidable issues - weather, loss of power, etc. - has a park ever not said those visitors can use their admission to return on another operating day?

[super7]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

For the ten millionth time, only if they always intended on switching from bottled to tap water. If they initially intended on provided bottled water and later changed to tap, then you can call that "unethical" if you're so inclined, but it ain't a "bait-and-switch". But it's clear that emotion is getting the better of you, given the use of words like "unethical", "morally", and phrases like "I am sure that...". You already have a conclusion before having the relevant facts, and it's clear you'll be darned if the absence or presence of facts will change your mind. One cannot be reasoned out of a position they did not reason themselves into, as the saying goes...

Has a CF park ever changed a day's operating hours on the day, for reasons other than weather or "acts of god"? And even when there are unavoidable issues - weather, loss of power, etc. - has a park ever not said those visitors can use their admission to return on another operating day?

They change their operating hours on the same day a LOT. They have done it repeatedly, a Kings Dominion and Carowinds  They get some rain (not enough that in the past would not have stopped operations).   Then they close the park, because attendance is low and blame the passing rain  

how is it obvious that it’s for low attendance? Because when this happened to me the rain to stop in plenty of time before the scheduled closing time   

I have been a victim to this multiple times after traveling to those parks.  Weather forecast was fine, rain appeared, attendance was low, and they closed the entire park

in fact, a Carowinds whats in November it was 50° all day and they close the park four hours early with not a cloud in the sky  

They offer rain checks, but they do not reimburse travelers for the travel time at hotels.  A rain check does no good for someone that’s travel distance.

Any company that cuts employee hours on the same day is not a good company to work for   This company does not operate on ethics.   

Today they announce the Kings Dominion and Carowinds will not be here around anymore. Months after they started selling 2024 season passes.   They knew their attendance (and losses) from last winter when they started selling six 2024 season passes, but they sure did not disclose that they are cutting two months off the operating schedule until now  

Cedar Fair is an unethical bait and switch company. 
I personally make a point not to spend a dime more than the passes at this park since they operate the way they do   

 

 

 

 

 

[BeeastFarmer]

@DispatchMaster, you seem very illogically committed to an idea that you have a very small chance to win in this forum  Using haughty tones, even if inferred in a static written message, will not influence people.

Whatever side folks are on, everyone, let's try and agree to disagree. As my ninth grade English teacher would say: "People, people.  Love one another and use your study skills!"

[DispatchMaster]

1 hour ago, super7 said:

They offer rain checks...

Right, exactly. What else are they supposed to do in the event of rain or bad weather? Put a tent over the park?

[super7]

7 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

Right, exactly. What else are they supposed to do in the event of rain or bad weather? Put a tent over the park?

What are they supposed to do? Operate as scheduled and give their employees. They’re scheduled hours.   Again they aren’t closing because of torrential rains or tornado warnings, etc. They are closing for low attendance and using the weather  as an excuse.   It has stopped raining anytime this has happened to me. 

Dollywood does not do this if it rains they stay open in Dollywood closes is dangerous weather such as a snow storm

That’s because Herschend has ethics, and knows how to treat their employees. Cedar Fair is an ethical. There’s a reason that person can operate almost daily 10 months of the year. They know how to treat their customers and employees    

 

[Tr0y]

55 minutes ago, super7 said:

What are they supposed to do? Operate as scheduled and give their employees. They’re scheduled hours.   Again they aren’t closing because of torrential rains or tornado warnings, etc. They are closing for low attendance and using the weather  as an excuse.   It has stopped raining anytime this has happened to me. 

Dollywood does not do this if it rains they stay open in Dollywood closes is dangerous weather such as a snow storm

That’s because Herschend has ethics, and knows how to treat their employees. Cedar Fair is an ethical. There’s a reason that person can operate almost daily 10 months of the year. They know how to treat their customers and employees    

 

Not disagreeing on the ethics part. The difference however is ownership for both chains.
 

Cedar Fair is a public company therefore a slave to its shareholders who live in the now. They the shareholders only care about their quarterly reports, specifically earnings. 

Herschend Entertainment on the other hand is a private company. So they care more so about the long term gains, even if it hurts them a little now.

I’m not defending Cedar Fair unethical business practices. It’s a poopy thing to do. However It’s their shareholders who push it tho.

Ain’t much we can do about it other than vote with your wallet or go on X and beg Elon Musk take Cedar Fair private. 

[DispatchMaster]

If you think CF is unethical now, CF would be the worst company in modern history under Musk, by your standards anyway, if Twitter is any indication. Complain about Prestige benefits? Season pass rescinded. Call the company unethical? Banned from the parks, chain-wide. Criticize the owner? Musk will personally dox you, resulting in death threats to you and your family. So maybe recalibrate what you consider "unethical". 

There is some truth to the short term vs long term outlook that seems to be negatively affecting the guest experience, which is something I've mentioned before. Specifically, the destruction of gate integrity with the introduction of the Gold Pass. It has resulted in short term gains, and even in the face of somewhat stagnant attendance the chain has been able to maximize per caps, but I don't see how it's sustainable. Cedar Fair has a premium product in the regional amusement park category, and any low priced pass should have provided only the most basic of access to the parks. Like only through Labor Day, etc. Allowing Gold Pass-wielding folks inexpensive access to the immensely-popular HW is just boneheaded, in my opinion.

It's anecdotal, but my Platinum Pass-wielding family would drop major coin on our visits to CP, staying on-property for multiple days per visit, paying top dollar for mediocre food at the resort, overpaying for poorly-mixed drinks, spending way too much on souvenirs, etc. We took one look at the Gold Pass, and the fact that early entry, previously available only to Platinum and resort guests, was significantly diluted by allowing Gold into the park for half of EE, and said "oh, hell no". Again, anecdotal, and so far they're doing fine without us, but I wonder if there are others like us who have since made the same decision.

10 hours ago, super7 said:

Again they aren’t closing because of torrential rains or tornado warnings, etc. They are closing for low attendance and using the weather  as an excuse.

I'm not aware of CF closing parks for reasons other than inclement weather. Granted, I primarily pay attention to CP and KI, where what you're describing does not occur. 

[KI Guy]

13 hours ago, Tr0y said:

Herschend Entertainment on the other hand is a private company. So they care more so about the long term gains, even if it hurts them a little now.

Correct.  Being privately owned they can also do more things they believe to be good for the park without always having to prove that the change will directly result in quick money to board members. Everything in a corporation has to be sold to a committee and picked at by cost-cutters. Vision and originality can be crushed in the name of short-term profit, risk aversion, and due to long approval chains of executives. 

As an example, can you ever imagine the current Cedar Fair building anything like the Voyage at Holiday World? If even built, it would likely be 2,000 feet shorter and 40 ft less tall. There would be no underground tunnels or 90 degree turns and no interactive queue line. All those cool things couldn't be justified if only thinking strictly about a theoretical short-term return on investment.

Another example... could you ever expect a $30 million dark ride like the new Fire in the Hole (Silver Dollar City) at a Cedar Fair park? No way would that ever happen. They'd opt for something like a $15 million version of Wonder Mountain's Guardian (Canada's Wonderland).

With a well-run private park there is a willingness to sacrifice some expected short-term return on investment for intangible goodwill and positive reaction from guests. Ultimately, this strategy will net money just as a more tangible short-term investment, it's just hard to show it on paper. If you don't have to constantly speak to a board, then you have more freedom to make these kinds of decisions. 

[DonHelbig]

@BoddaH1994 and I will be talking about the Prestige Pass in an upcoming episode of Tower Topics, which is a podcast about Kings Island. 

[disco2000]

24 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

@BoddaH1994 and I will be talking about the Prestige Pass in an upcoming episode of Tower Topics, which is a podcast about Kings Island. 

I am sure many people will be interested in that episode!

[PKIVortex]

So the Prestige entrance has turned into a huge joke. It's a free for all going through that line. I arrived at 6pm and noticed Gold pass holders also going through that line. When asked why it wss being ran as advertised they said nothing they could do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[disco2000]

Sadly it has been like that most of the year.

There is plenty they could do - staff the entrance to not allow non prestige in, better signage and fencing, and don't direct people from other lines over.  Simply another broken benefit.  Why even offer it at this point. 

[PKIVortex]

Cedar Point does an amazing job with this line why can't KI? I agree why have it when it's serving any real benefits to Prestige pass holders.

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[Tr0y]

Nothing like paying $350+ to sip on tap water underneath a low budget party tent while simultaneously breathing in coal smoke. 

[Tr0y]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:19 AM, DispatchMaster said:

If you think CF is unethical now, CF would be the worst company in modern history under Musk, by your standards anyway, if Twitter is any indication. Complain about Prestige benefits? Season pass rescinded. Call the company unethical? Banned from the parks, chain-wide. Criticize the owner? Musk will personally dox you, resulting in death threats to you and your family. So maybe recalibrate what you consider "unethical". 

There is some truth to the short term vs long term outlook that seems to be negatively affecting the guest experience, which is something I've mentioned before. Specifically, the destruction of gate integrity with the introduction of the Gold Pass. It has resulted in short term gains, and even in the face of somewhat stagnant attendance the chain has been able to maximize per caps, but I don't see how it's sustainable. Cedar Fair has a premium product in the regional amusement park category, and any low priced pass should have provided only the most basic of access to the parks. Like only through Labor Day, etc. Allowing Gold Pass-wielding folks inexpensive access to the immensely-popular HW is just boneheaded, in my opinion.

It's anecdotal, but my Platinum Pass-wielding family would drop major coin on our visits to CP, staying on-property for multiple days per visit, paying top dollar for mediocre food at the resort, overpaying for poorly-mixed drinks, spending way too much on souvenirs, etc. We took one look at the Gold Pass, and the fact that early entry, previously available only to Platinum and resort guests, was significantly diluted by allowing Gold into the park for half of EE, and said "oh, hell no". Again, anecdotal, and so far they're doing fine without us, but I wonder if there are others like us who have since made the same decision.

I'm not aware of CF closing parks for reasons other than inclement weather. Granted, I primarily pay attention to CP and KI, where what you're describing does not occur. 

CP does not grant gold pass members who are not staying in a CF owned hotel, early entry.

My last visit they were checking passes prior to granting early entry.

[DispatchMaster]

They absolutely did grant Gold Passholders 30 minutes of Early Entry, no resort stay needed, in 2020, 2021, and I think 2022. Not certain about 2022, but that's irrelevant, because we made our decision in 2019 not to renew, based in large part on the lack of EE.

And Gold can still get the full hour of EE if they add the All Park Passport, at a price point about 25% less than Platinum (adjusted for inflation).

The result is the same - Early Entry's value has been diluted.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:58 AM, disco2000 said:

There is plenty they could do - staff the entrance to not allow non prestige in, better signage and fencing, and don't direct people from other lines over.  

Isn't the old season pass entrance from the paramount days still there and not in use? If so, that is the perfect solution for this problem. 

[disco2000]

4 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Isn't the old season pass entrance from the paramount days still there and not in use? If so, that is the perfect solution for this problem. 

Yes it is and I really thought they would have used that when this was announced as it would be far left and not where all the foot traffic is going.

But the "problem" would be that area is currently used as the smoking area for Haunt, but the smoking section is something they could relocate.

[Tr0y]

55 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

They absolutely did grant Gold Passholders 30 minutes of Early Entry, no resort stay needed, in 2020, 2021, and I think 2022. Not certain about 2022, but that's irrelevant, because we made our decision in 2019 not to renew, based in large part on the lack of EE.

And Gold can still get the full hour of EE if they add the All Park Passport, at a price point about 25% less than Platinum (adjusted for inflation).

The result is the same - Early Entry's value has been diluted.

They did? Did you visit this season?

[DispatchMaster]

Yes, the Gold Pass provided 30 minutes of Early Entry to both the Cedar Point and Shores, and those benefits were extended through at least 2021.

No, no visits this year. We went last year, but were not eligible for EE, because we weren't passholders and were staying off-property at Kalahari.

[DonHelbig]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:52 PM, Tr0y said:

Nothing like paying $350+ to sip on tap water underneath a low budget party tent while simultaneously breathing in coal smoke. 

I thought being located by the train depot and Millennium Force made for a nice setting for the Prestige Pass VIP area at Cedar Point. I enjoyed it, thought it was a nice set up. And it had really good, ice cold tap water, plenty of snacks, cords to recharge my phone. 

[DonHelbig]

On a recent podcast episode of Tower Topics, @boddah1994 and I talk about the value of the Prestige Pass.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tower-topics/id1698426928?i=1000633063943

 

[mikejenkins1]

Don,

I agree 100% with Ryan and never went along with it.....  

 

[SHMAN1]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:55 AM, DonHelbig said:

I thought being located by the train depot and Millennium Force made for a nice setting for the Prestige Pass VIP area at Cedar Point. I enjoyed it, thought it was a nice set up. And it had really good, ice cold tap water, plenty of snacks, cords to recharge my phone. 

 

Although I know it would be virtually impossible due to equipment that is up there, cabling all over, and access issues....I've thought for awhile now that the 50' level of the Effiel Tower would make a killer location for the VIP lounge at KI

[jbeast]

That would be amazing! I was lucky enough as a young teenager to have access to the stairs and that level one year I remember...think maybe I was 12-13 at the time. Got some great old photos of The Bat and Beast from that vantage point. As well as some of the other side of the park. I always wished that they would open it back up. VIP Lounge up there would be epic!

[Snowball]

As someone who has had to climb those stairs many times, trust me, you do not want to have the VIP lounge up there, it’s exhausting, especially if you’re carrying anything lol.

[Born_in_'72]

I am curious as to how difficult/costly it would be to add a stop on one of the elevators, and make it the entrance to the VIP area and close off whichever top level it was going to.  It would also make it easier to regulate who gets in and what gets out.  Maybe they could even bring back some of the original perks, if they're not 'walking off'.

 

Just a thought.....

[IndyGuy4KI]

Put the VIP in the old SOB station. That would be fun!