Camp Snoopy Construction Updates

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

4 minutes ago, Orion742 said:

Looking at the webcams it seems a construction wall has officially gone up. @Hawaiian Coasters 325 Can you confirm?

 

Yep a wall is up. Not surprising considering the park opens tonight and Snoopy will be open tomorrow. 

[Orion742]

55 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Yep a wall is up. Not surprising considering the park opens tonight and Snoopy will be open tomorrow. 

Thanks! Let the excitement begin! I really hope that the park can get everything done for opening day next year. My hopes aren’t extremely high but higher than at the start of Adventure Port last October.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I will get pictures tonight and tomorrow to start our 2024 construction photo gallery. More history in the making. This was taken last Sunday.

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

Photos I just took.

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

Video Update:

 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Seems like trees have been cleared by the flume.

[Orion742]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Seems like trees have been cleared by the flume.

Looking good! I have a feeling we could see the first piece of track in place the first week after Haunt!

[CoastersRZ]

I think that is overly optimistic.  They have to pour foundations.  And usually concrete needs about 28 days to reach 99% compressive strength.  So its not like they can pour it Monday and set steel on it on Tuesday.  It needs some time to cure and get its strength.

[DispatchMaster]

This is probably an unpopular view, but it's a shame they couldn't have found a way to incorporate this ride without tearing out all those trees along the north side of the flume there. Those trees allowed for some suspension of the reality of being in an amusement park while riding, making it seem like a voyage through the woods. It's especially ironic given the transformation of the area into Camp Snoopy.

[BeeastFarmer]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

This is probably an unpopular view, but it's a shame they couldn't have found a way to incorporate this ride without tearing out all those trees along the north side of the flume there. Those trees allowed for some suspension of the reality of being in an amusement park while riding, making it seem like a voyage through the woods. It's especially ironic given the transformation of the area into Camp Snoopy.

For once, we agree!

 

[PKIDelirium]

Personally I would have preferred the old amphitheater be removed instead of repurposed, purely for aesthetic reasons. Paint it however you want, it's still the Nickelodeon Theater and building the playground area from scratch would have allowed more creativity in the layout, and maybe left a treeline dividing the flume from SSBR.

[DispatchMaster]

Excellent point.

There's been a disappointing trend at CF in recent years of a tendency to, in my opinion, err too far on the side of cost savings. I get that they'll save some money by repurposing the theater, and the shade it'll provide will no doubt be appreciated, but installing a coaster is a very rare event and should justify the investment of razing the entire area and starting from scratch. That would have allowed maintaining the seclusion of the flume and, as you say, provided a clean slate for the playground.

I can't help but wonder if this would have played out differently under Ouimet. He seemed to defer to those below him to make these choices, and he understood the value of "place making". It feels like Zimmerman has given a top-down directive to pinch pennies.

[Tr0y]

57 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Excellent point.

There's been a disappointing trend at CF in recent years of a tendency to, in my opinion, err too far on the side of cost savings. I get that they'll save some money by repurposing the theater, and the shade it'll provide will no doubt be appreciated, but installing a coaster is a very rare event and should justify the investment of razing the entire area and starting from scratch. That would have allowed maintaining the seclusion of the flume and, as you say, provided a clean slate for the playground.

I can't help but wonder if this would have played out differently under Ouimet. He seemed to defer to those below him to make these choices, and he understood the value of "place making". It feels like Zimmerman has given a top-down directive to pinch pennies.

Gotta keep those quarterly earnings up to appease the investors. 
 

Maybe Ouimet is no longer on the board because his ideology was no longer of value to the chain. 

[DispatchMaster]

If that's the board's position, CF is headed in the wrong direction long term.

[mikejenkins1]

So the amphitheater there will be torn down?

[WoodVengeance]

3 minutes ago, mikejenkins1 said:

So the amphitheater there will be torn down?

No. It's being reused as a shade structure for the new playground area for Camp Snoopy.

[BoddaH1994]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:26 AM, DispatchMaster said:

Excellent point.

There's been a disappointing trend at CF in recent years of a tendency to, in my opinion, err too far on the side of cost savings. I get that they'll save some money by repurposing the theater, and the shade it'll provide will no doubt be appreciated, but installing a coaster is a very rare event and should justify the investment of razing the entire area and starting from scratch. That would have allowed maintaining the seclusion of the flume and, as you say, provided a clean slate for the playground.

I can't help but wonder if this would have played out differently under Ouimet. He seemed to defer to those below him to make these choices, and he understood the value of "place making". It feels like Zimmerman has given a top-down directive to pinch pennies.

No difference under Ouimet. The investment is reactionary in many ways. Going into a questionable economy and knowing that a $1B note is coming due while facing the increasing likelihood of having to revolve it at a high interest rate is all stuff they have in mind. Fortunately they aren't making the same mistake that Six Flags made and simply refusing to invest. My concern is not the structure, but rather if anything major will be cut from the project. That conversation will, and always will, come up as late as the 11th hour with every project. Given the climate, it may be more likely this time. They're not going to cut the coaster or anything like that, but things like repainting, thematic elements, and the scope of the play structures would be an easy target. The concept art looks really good, so I hope I'm wrong. 

Whomever the CEO is won't carry a ton of weight unless you get some sort of wack job. Much of this is on the park level. You need people that will push for projects, not "yes men." Without naming names, there was a guy who worked in entertainment that was very good about asking for what he needed, selling corporate (and his colleagues) on his vision, and executing the plan. A lot of things peaked under his watch. When he (rightfully) moved into a higher role in corporate, a lot of that stopped. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if he were in his old role at KI we wouldn't have had the... version... of Grand Carnival that we had this year. He would have sold them on giving guests the whole experience. Same is true for capital. When corporate comes down saying they want something downsized, unless there is someone there to stand up for the integrity of the project then it's going to happen every time. 

[CoastersRZ]

And KI didn`t want to loose our original Flyers.  Different company and regime at the time, but the decision to relocate them came from corporate.  

I have always believed that the Cedar Fair GMs have a lot of say of what capital gets spent at their parks, with input from corporate.  I feel like at Six Flags, it is all controlled by corporate, and the GMs have very little say.  Although Jeff Siebert, a former KI employee, seems to be bucking that myth/trend at his park (Six Flags Fiesta Texas).

[DispatchMaster]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:15 PM, BoddaH1994 said:

Whomever the CEO is won't carry a ton of weight unless you get some sort of wack job.

When corporate comes down saying they want something downsized, unless there is someone there to stand up for the integrity of the project then it's going to happen every time. 

Well, which is it? Is the CEO some marginalized figurehead who "doesn't carry a ton of weight" or a micromanager who tells parks what to cut from their projects?

And there very much was a culture difference under Ouimet, which is what I was referring to. Ouimet stressed empowering folks at the park level. That obviously didn't mean there weren't budgets to adhere to, but he allowed parks room to operate. I don't recall a single project during Ouimet's tenure that had the sort of cheap feel of what they're doing at KI for 2024, or 2023 to a lesser degree, though perhaps there are some examples off my radar. His sudden departure also suggests his message may have started falling on increasingly-deafening ears.

[Tr0y]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Well, which is it? Is the CEO some marginalized figurehead who "doesn't carry a ton of weight" or a micromanager who tells parks what to cut from their projects?

And there very much was a culture difference under Ouimet, which is what I was referring to. Ouimet stressed empowering folks at the park level. That obviously didn't mean there weren't budgets to adhere to, but he allowed parks room to operate. I don't recall a single project during Ouimet's tenure that had the sort of cheap feel of what they're doing at KI for 2024, or 2023 to a lesser degree, though perhaps there are some examples off my radar. His sudden departure also suggests his message may have started falling on increasingly-deafening ears.

And some people think Dick Kinzel is gone. He himself, might be gone but that doesn’t mean the culture that he created is.

[DispatchMaster]

And that is terrifying. Cedar Fair outgrew Kinzel's abilities years before he finally retired.

[disco2000]

9 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

And some people think Dick Kinzel is gone. He himself, might be gone but that doesn’t mean the culture that he created is.

Exactly,  It usually takes a lot of turnover before a previous culture is wiped out.

[Orion742]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSijBVK7ik&pp=ygUpVGhlIG9uZSB3aGVyZSBpdHMgYWxsIGdyYXZ5IGhvbGRpYXkgd29ybGQ%3D

(23:40 for more details)

I’ve just heard something on the Holiday World podcast that I thought would be worth sharing. Take this with a grain of salt. I decided to listen to the HW podcast on Good Gravy to see what was new with the project and I heard something that caught my attention. They started talking about SSBR and how they like the theme but then they mentioned that Vekoma was quiet about where the other Vekoma boomerangs were going during project development but could confirm them that Holiday world’s would be the first to open next year. Now this isn’t 100% confirmed but I would not be surprised to see SSBR open in the summer like Adventure Port did last year. Holiday World has stated that Good Gravy is scheduled to open with opening day May 4th. What are your guys thoughts on this?

Edited October 27, 2023 by Orion742
Added the podcast into post

[Aaron88stang]

Not entirely surprising as Good Gravy is clearly further along in construction. 

[PKIDelirium]

Location is once again a factor here as Holiday World was able to start work on the site earlier and not disrupt park operations. Combined with the very cold winter we had, there wasn't much that could be done for Adventure Port until WinterFest was over due to being within an open area of the park.

[WoodVengeance]

2 hours ago, Aaron88stang said:

Not entirely surprising as Good Gravy is clearly further along in construction. 

Yeah. At Holiday World, we started to see land clearing around the former Pilgrim's Plunge area back in May/June, whereas it's just started with SSBR at Kings Island. I would say Good Gravy will probably get a month or two head-start over SSBR.

[Kenban]

4 hours ago, PKIDelirium said:

Location is once again a factor here as Holiday World was able to start work on the site earlier and not disrupt park operations. Combined with the very cold winter we had, there wasn't much that could be done for Adventure Port until WinterFest was over due to being within an open area of the park.

According to Mike Koontz, the park always knew it would be impossible for Adventure Port to be ready for opening day.  When the rides were ordered, the planned delivery date for the ride hardware was always after opening day.  The construction was planned due to the estimated delivery of the rides, which were delivered late but not by much.

Soapbox Racers is a small coaster, it’s not even 80 feet tall, and has less than 700 feet of track.  The single train operation means a lot less wiring and controls.  It’s a simple ride that will be able to be rapidly constructed.  Vekoma has publicly stated Good Gravy will be the first family boomerang in North America, so they need to have a good reason and construction does not make any sense to me.  Either it’s built into the contract or the order was placed so late that it’s already known there is no way it could be ready by opening day.  The park cannot build a ride it does not have.

[IndyGuy4KI]

New constructuion Update 

 

[PKIDelirium]

Well, that answers the question about how they're dealing with the elevation difference from midway to old theater floor level, just dig it all up and have a slope! Not complaining, that means they have an open slate for the playground layout without having old parts of steps or ramps mixed in.

Also, wow, the surfacing that hasn't been completely removed yet is down to the REALLY OLD Splat City era (or maybe even older with the cinderblocks and tiles) foundation layer.

[silver2005]

I'm curious how well they do the water feature under the coaster that appears in the concept art.